Mae989 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 So it's great for those girls (and boys) out there who have a yes for Y7 vocational schools, but what about those who were told no?! Wow, what a journey this has been for me and my DD so far! I am not a dancer so didn't really see what I was letting her into. Yes the dance world is wonderful and exciting but it can also be very destructive. So far we have 1 yes, 3 no's and still waiting for the final one. Even with a yes there's the not so small issue of funding. Breaking to the news to my DD has broken my heart a million times over and has taken something away from her, she has lost that sparkle, I see it in her eyes. My biggest issue is after all that time, money and effort there is no feedback! Not even a one liner. Come on, it doesn't take that long and I am certain the £45 administration cost could've covered a sentence surely? She looks in my eyes and repeatedly asks my why? Why? Why? And I do not have the answer. My dilemma is, I genuinely don't know. I have seen some of the girls who got finals and I honestly can't see any difference. There are some that shine but not many. So what is it then? She has a slightly bigger rib cage than some of the girls in JAs, her legs are slightly more muscular than some. Physio assessments always go well, she's flexible than most. So what are they looking at? I'm not saying DD is perfect at all. If it is technical skills then that would mean she can work on that and re-audition. If it is her body then I don't want to go down this road any further. Does anyone know of people turned away at 11 that then went on to be successful? Either at school or post graduate? I'm new to this so I hope all this makes sense?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutugirl Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I am sad to hear your story . I am wondering if your DDs own dance teacher would be the best person to talk to ? She will obviously know her very well , and could probably suggest where to go from here . If she has a yes for one of the big four schools , then that is great ! If you think about how many hundreds of children audition , and how few places there are ( are we talking 12 - 18 girls in each school at year 7 ? ) then perhaps your DD will realise that actually she has done tremendously well . Physiques change , performance develops and technique strengthens with time . She might have only just missed out on a place this year . Have a good chat to your local teacher , and to her JA teacher , and hopefully onwards and upwards . Good luck and try to stay positive - you only need one Yes after all , but all the best for the funding final . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Darcy Bussell springs to mind. She did not enter White Lodge until year 8 and age 13. Your dd is still very young and is still developing. She clearly is talented as you have mentioned she is a ja with I presume the Royal Ballet. I know so many girls who entered vocational schools at a later date who were very sucessful. Good luck with the offer your dd already has. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mae989 Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Thankyou for being so kind. I'm trying to stay positive, I feel a little tainted by the process of it and desperately want to protect her. Even though I'm constantly telling her this will only make her stronger and more determined. And gaining a place is still a fantastic achievement. Her regular teacher hasn't been very forthcoming to be honest. Yes she's a RBS JA so that's a great idea to ask her. I do sometimes feel teachers aren't fully honest as they don't want to upset you? I just worry that she has gone down a path that she shouldn't be following and I am facilitating that. Why didn't anyone warn me parenting was so hard???????? It is good to know that ballet life doesn't end here! So much pressure to get in at this age and it's almost like if they don't get in then that's that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrothbart Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 It is good to know that ballet life doesn't end here! So much pressure to get in at this age and it's almost like if they don't get in then that's that It could actually be a blessing in disguise for some not getting into vocational school at 11, as there will be many opportunities further down the line, as long as your DD is getting good tuition along the way. It won't suit everyone to be away from their families, and they could actually be stronger when / if the chance comes later. Like This Quote MultiQuote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpybearzuk Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Hi I know what you are going through ! My dd only auditioned at Elmhurst for year 7as that was the only school she wanted to go to and as being a associate there for 3 years she desperately wanted to go there full time. But we got a no to finals even though she has always got glowing reports and is a beautiful dancer and perfect physique! We still have not had feedback even though we have been promised it so she still questions why but now we have had time to calm down and had talks with her lovely dance teacher at home she has realised that now she gets to train with her friends at home and her training at home is excellent , and we also as a family keep her with us for a little longer and she's always been a mummy's girl so more cuddles for me . There are lots of girls at my dd local ballet school who didn't get in at year 7 who have gone on to successfully audition and get places in year 8 upwards and a lot have chose to keep training here and then audition at 6th form and have gone on to some wonderful ballet schools so there is always that option. I know as a mum how you feel and I think ive gone though all the emotions this last few months but it has got better for us and there are a lot of positives for her staying st home:) ( my dds is she will learn pointe with her beloved ballet teacher she has had since 4!) Just keep reassuring your beautiful dd and giving lots of cuddles and love ☺️ Xxx Edited February 22, 2015 by grumpybearzuk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggis Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Sadly the nos go on even after they have trained at top schools. At a recent professional audition, the students faced their first cut after Barre. This is not unusual apparantly. With flights and accommodation, it is a very expensive "no". We all want to protect our dcs but the truth is we can't. Mind you, graduates leaving uni also seem to be struggling to find work... I honestly think we are training too many dancers when there are so few jobs! Good luck to parents of gorgeous dancing children who are struggling at the moment.. Edited by Mod to correct formatting trouble! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Parent Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I clearly remember those feelings you have after the 'No's' at Year 7. It felt like the end of the world and I spent many nights wrestling with my thoughts. Don't do this to yourself or your DD. Stop overthinking, wait 6 months and then talk and plan the next stage with your DD. Time allows the space for you to both think clearly. Work with her teacher and if she is still very serious about it and your teacher is reticent to give feedback, find another teacher to advise so you are clear whether it makes sense to audition next year or better to focus on ballet as a fun hobby. Every child and family is different. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) I feel for you and your DD Mae989. But unfortunately this is the story all over the country right now. There are hundreds of children at 10 and 11 wanting to get into ballet school. There are probably a maximum of 40 spaces for girls at the 4 main schools for that age group. There are 8 JA centres, junior associate schemes for Elmhurst, Tring, northern ballet and no doubt more that I can't bring to mind right now. Then add in all the lovely little girls who don't do associate schemes yet as their parents aren't aware of them, or can't afford them or live too far away or have other children to consider and can't fit it in.......the schools can afford to be very picky indeed and that makes for a very lucky child who gets any offers at all. This stage will be a natural breaking off point for some children and parents. There will be others along the way. Some of those who went away at 11 will not progress to senior level, others who didn't go away will make it into a ballet school at 13,14 or 16 (and that absolutely includes children who were not selected at 11). Everybody develops at a different rate, the physical attributes, some talent and a lot of determination will win the day. Parents and children need to be resilient, realistic and be able to enjoy the journey for the time it lasts. No feedback carries on throughout their career re auditions. No feed back for senior school, no feed back for professional auditions - might as well get used to it - dancers have to be tough and believe in themselves. Celebrate the offer you have, it is a fantastic achievement. Edited February 22, 2015 by Harwel 21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Harwel that is fantastic advice. Mae989 I am so sorry to hear about your distressing experience. I was in exactly the same situation with my dd 2 years ago and it is awful. Your posting brings it all back horribly clearly! Now I can look back more objectively I would say that Harwel has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Good luck to both of you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Should also have said I wish I found this forum before entering the audition process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecarte Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Mae989. Your DD has had one yes and is a JA. She has done fabulously well hold on to the positives. She is still young and if the desire to dance is still there whatever the outcome whether she goes to vocational school at year7 or not she can still be successful. My own DD did not start ballet until she was 10 and was in an associate scheme by 11 and is now training vocationally in 6th form with funding. When she auditioned we got some yeses and some nos. Each school looks for something different, some girls DD knows were rejected by schools that said yes to DD and accepted by schools that said no to DD- it's a mystery to me! However it is a hard process and keeping positive is difficult. However the audition process is just the start, as much fun and rewarding as vocational school is it is hard work and requires tenacity, toughness and a streak of bl**dy mindedness at times. Who knows if she will even get a job thereafter. She has had so many wonderful experiences through dance that she would not otherwise have had, she has met some fabulous friends and has a passion in life. That for me is a success. Good luck to your DD and you on your journey. X 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 My goodness - she got a YES! Do you have any idea what an achievement that is? And she's a JA - another biggy! There will always be schools that will reject you, some more kindly than others, but you have to look at it from the positive side - you only need one yes in the end! I have a former student, who passed his Advanced 1 before he applied to upper school vocational training. Although he had been accepted for three RBS Summer schools, they rejected him for full time training. He applied for a top school in Germany, but despite having passed his Advanced 1 at 16, without full-time training, they told him he was not high enough standard for them - rather bluntly I might add. However, he was accepted to Elmhurst and Central. He chose Elmhurst and had wonderful training there. He has been a professional ballet dancer for 7 years now. This is a tough business and there is enormous competition. You have to be resilient - to quote the wonderful Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers song in Swing Time - Nothing's impossible, I have foundFor when my chin is on the ground.I pick myself up,Dust myself offAnd start all over again.Don't lose your confidenceIf you slipBe grateful for a pleasant tripAnd pick yourself up,Dust yourself offAnd start all over again. 23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBallerina Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I love the quote - Dance*is*life ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Mae989, I understand your disappointment, and knowing that there are others in the same or worse position doesn't always help your own feelings, but try to keep things in perspective. Your DD has an offer, albeit depending on funding, and she is a JA, two things that many, many children would bite her hand off for. Those things demonstrate that she certainly has potential, and most likely also a jolly good local teacher. Whatever happens from this round of auditions, she still has those things. The "no" letters are devastating at the time, I know, but fundamentally they don't change anything - she is still a talented young lady with lots of potential, a good teacher and a supportive mum. All the no letters mean at this stage is that these particular opportunities are not open at this particular time. The die is certainly not cast at 11. You only have to read this forum to hear about children gaining places in vocational training at a later stage, and a substantial proportion those who are selected at 11 will not become professional ballet dances, for a variety of reasons including physical issues and simply realising that it isn't actually what they want to do after all. There is a great deal of movement over the years, lots of different paths to success, and indeed many different definitions of success. If your DD maintains the desire to dance professionally there will be many other opportunities, and, as others have said, many more disappointments, continued right up to working life. (A friend of ours is a commercial dancer and she has been cut at auditions before she has danced a step.) What matters right now is that your DD is happy, and sge can be happy at home with her family and her local teacher I am sure. If she loves to dance, her sparkle will return, and who knows, you may yet have good news from the funding audition anyway. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belljul Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Mae989 I feel your pain. And it is painful. Loads of great advice given here and although I have done this twice before with two of my children it is still hard to go through it with my third, more so after all I have learnt. I have to share one thing with you and it is the greatest thing I have learnt, and this is where I am at the moment as we wait for finals.....it's about being honest. Do I REALLY think this is the best path for my daughter? Does she really understand what this life is like? Does she want it enough? It is a very tough path and although they think they want it, and get carried away by the romance and beauty of dance, is it REALLY worth it? Worth the pain (she was in tears stretching today), worth missing the fun of her friendships (she missed a party last Saturday), missing the daily loving companionship of her parents (if she goes away). What I am trying to say is that although it may seem a disaster for her and you right now as you had high hopes, positive things may come from her not following the path you thought she would (although of course it's early days and she still might). Right now, I just want my daughter to live a "normal" life with her friends and family close by, without the harsh competition and comparisons, and the endless worry of being good enough, without constantly worrying that her body isn't "right". I think it's important to look at the other side and say it might just be ok if it doesn't work out. I'm saying this as a parent of two children who are training to be dancers at vocational schools and I support them wholeheartedly but I just want to give you a hug and say follow your daughter's dream as long as she wants to keep trying but remind her that if it doesn't work out it will be ok. And it might just be better xx Edited to make better sense Edited February 22, 2015 by Belljul 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Parent Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Refreshingly honest Belljul xxx 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millie3 Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 It surprises me again and again the number of people who go into the whole audition process blinkered. Yes our dd/ds are all fab and talented - there's just far too many of them for the number of places available. It is our job as parents to keep our children grounded - they need to know at the outset that most auditioning won't get in! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance*is*life Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 SBallerina if you put Fred Astaire Pick Yourself Up into youtube you can see the whole song and dance - it's lovely! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Millie, if you have no knowledge of the dance world, if your child is a big fish in the small pool of the local dance school and if this is the first time that your child has auditioned for vocational school it's not surprising if parents don't appreciate how competitive and opaque the whole audition process is. It's easier to get a place at Oxbridge. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I agree with Aileen - if you yourself aren't a dancer it's hard. I think as a JA you get led into the process automatically as well. The JA teacher's agenda may not be the same as the parents' although, without knowledge, it is hard to see that at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circe Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 My eldest dd just got place at Oxford and have to agree it seemed like a walk in the park compared with my younger dd auditioning for upper school. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Well done to your daughter chaperone! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circe Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Thanks! Small matter remaining of getting AAA at A level but like i say, a breeze compared to ballet school auditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacharovitti Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Belljul, thank you for your wonderful post. It reminds us the importance to keep the whole process in the right perspective, to keep our feeling at the right distance and to see deeply the other side of the medal. Easy to forget while on the rollercoaster, thank you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacharovitti Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Chaperone, congratulations to your daughter! My eldest son would like to apply in the future (he is 15 now) and jokes with his sister all the time saying that succeeding in auditions cannot be harder than getting a place at Oxbridge!!! I must read him these posts!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invisiblecircus Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 My biggest issue is after all that time, money and effort there is no feedback! Not even a one liner. Come on, it doesn't take that long and I am certain the £45 administration cost could've covered a sentence surely? She looks in my eyes and repeatedly asks my why? Why? Why? And I do not have the answer. My dilemma is, I genuinely don't know. I have seen some of the girls who got finals and I honestly can't see any difference. There are some that shine but not many. So what is it then? She has a slightly bigger rib cage than some of the girls in JAs, her legs are slightly more muscular than some. Physio assessments always go well, she's flexible than most. So what are they looking at? You've had some great replies and congratulations for the place you have been offered as well as being a JA. Regarding feedback, I totally understand how you feel having been there myself (albeit a while ago ;-) ) but think of it from the school's perspective. What if they told you she had the wrong physique/ wasn't musical enough/ didn't have the right performance quality? It could be even more frustrating thinking that someone else got a yes and SHE had the same physique/ wasn't as good etc. Schools don't want to get into a situation where they have to justify their decision because very often, the quality they are looking for that they see in one child and not in another is indefinable. Your DD's regular dance teacher obviously thinks she has potential having put her forward to audition for a JA place. I would definitely be asking the JA teacher what she thinks about your DD's potential. I would also try and get feedback from other places such as Easter/ summer school courses, especially those at leading schools if you can get a place. Some are probably better at giving feedback than others, maybe forum members can advise on this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mae989 Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Sorry to hear that grumpybearzuk, fantastic that you have such a great home teacher though. They really are like gold dust @harwel thank you for your advise and giving me a little shake up to see what DD has got right now in front of her. It's sometimes easy to fall off the track and focus in the negatives rather than the wonderful things she has right now. I have spoken with DD today and she seems much clearer and happier as do I She's a tough cookie when she needs to be. Thank you Ecarte and how fantastic for your DD to have achieved so much so quickly, you must be so proud! Once again dance*is*life, I suppose somewhere along the way we have been moving so fast that neither of us have actually stood back and looked at what she has got. Great quote by the way! and thank you. Thank you for all your kind words pups_mum, she has desire....bags and bags of it! I on the other hand can't see why she could pick a nice 'normal' ambition Belljul, I could almost feel the hug and it is so kind and inspiring to hear from someone who has walked in those shoes. That is half if the problem for me, not one member of our family has ever danced and its a completely different work to the I grew up in. This is really where I suppose I was blinkered Millie3, because this isn't my world. I would never have chosen something so unsafe and unpredictable. It just isn't me. So when my DD comes to me asking to audition, talking and dreaming of dance, I don't know what I am letting myself in for. In an interview you get feedback. For a job I shortlist potential applicants and only interview those who show the best possible potential. I would interview half the country for 12 jobs! How ridiculous!! And I certainly didn't think she was guaranteed a place. But, with my limited knowledge of the dance world, I did think it wise to gets feel that if there are no's now is that a strong indication I should sway her path in another direction? Well done chaperone!!!! Very very proud parent with a child that could actually be creating a career that will pay the bills Onwards and upwards and all energies now focused in scholarships for now I am so glad I plucked up the courage to post xx 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So glad you found the comments helpful. I marvel at the way parents, who don't come from a dancing background navigate this strange world. My mother was a dancer, now teacher. I trained vocationally and now my son is training vocationally. I left the dance world for a time and became a chartered tax accountant and couldn't believe the difference in the dance world to the business world (left that after 7 years as it didn't make my 'heart sing', financial security yes, joy, no!). My heart sank a little when my son decided to follow dance - however, I fully understand why and I am incredibly proud of his determination and work ethic - things which will transfer into any career if the need arises. The sensible, logical part of my brain says persuing a dance career is crazy. The artistic, feeling part oft brain says follow your dream, your passion and find a career you love because then you will be really living. That is actually what I want for my son. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mae989 Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 So glad you found the comments helpful. I marvel at the way parents, who don't come from a dancing background navigate this strange world. My mother was a dancer, now teacher. I trained vocationally and now my son is training vocationally. I left the dance world for a time and became a chartered tax accountant and couldn't believe the difference in the dance world to the business world (left that after 7 years as it didn't make my 'heart sing', financial security yes, joy, no!). My heart sank a little when my son decided to follow dance - however, I fully understand why and I am incredibly proud of his determination and work ethic - things which will transfer into any career if the need arises. The sensible, logical part of my brain says persuing a dance career is crazy. The artistic, feeling part oft brain says follow your dream, your passion and find a career you love because then you will be really living. That is actually what I want for my son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucinda Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So glad you found the comments helpful. I marvel at the way parents, who don't come from a dancing background navigate this strange world. My mother was a dancer, now teacher. I trained vocationally and now my son is training vocationally. I left the dance world for a time and became a chartered tax accountant and couldn't believe the difference in the dance world to the business world (left that after 7 years as it didn't make my 'heart sing', financial security yes, joy, no!). My heart sank a little when my son decided to follow dance - however, I fully understand why and I am incredibly proud of his determination and work ethic - things which will transfer into any career if the need arises. The sensible, logical part of my brain says persuing a dance career is crazy. The artistic, feeling part oft brain says follow your dream, your passion and find a career you love because then you will be really living. That is actually what I want for my son. I knew nothing about ballet or the ballet world and it never crossed my mind to send DD to classes. I still don't "get it" (as my DD describes it) as I hate drawing attention to myself and I can think of few things worse than "performing" on stage. DD's father feels the same! I kept hoping that DD would "grow out of it" and although I have been supportive of her dream to be a professional dancer, I (confession time) haven't encouraged it. On the positive side there are not many kids who have an all encompassing passion that has so many benefits, regardless whether they end up pursuing ballet or dance as a career. My DD has tried to describe the sheer joy and exhilaration she feels when performing, the closest I can imagine is the huge adrenaline rush you feel when going on a thrilling theme park ride or abseiling! Although talking of theme park rides, it has been a huge roller coaster of emotions (more no's than yes's) for DD to get to where she is now (European full time vocational school). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAIRBELLES Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Hi Mae989 I can empathise totally with how you are feeling , I was in your very position . That year nearly all the JA class reached finals except for my dd also after the teacher had given me false hope after our yearly chat . I must say the following lessons were very hard listening to chatter of leotards and trips to Richmond Park. I knew getting into the school would be difficult but I was hopeful just for finals. Our local teacher was lovely and she received very positive feedback from Mark Annear that made perfect sense. We have turned her Royal disappointment into a bit of a standing joke as every year she has tried for Summer School and has been placed on the waiting list four times also MAs wait list at the time. I will PM you later when I have more time with our little story ( she's at a Vocational School) But for now my favourite quote that I constantly tell myself " What is for you will not pass you by" 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Love that quote HAIRBELLES! I may have to adopt it???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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