Boys... equal treatment or encouragement?

[Ballet_Is_King]

Hello lovely people, just here to ask for your thoughts and feelings on the following:

 

As a male dance teacher, I am drafting an article about the experience of boys growing up in female heavy dance school environments and how I always detested being shown 'special treatment'. I am entirely of the view that gender is irrelevant in dance and that boys should be treated, judged and assessed by the exact same standards as girls.

 

In my younger days, I always remember the feeling of embarrassment at festivals; whenever I was pulled forward by an adjudicator, simply because I was the token boy. Or worse, I remember a number of occasions when I placed higher than girls that I knew were a better standard than me, because the adjudicator thought it would be 'encouraging' and help my confidence. I know a number of examiners who also admit to marking boys higher than girls for similar reasons.

 

If anything I find these things counter productive and yet they are still happening, even in this day and age when more and more boys are engaging enthusiastically with dance. I have discussed this topic at length with other male dancers I grew up with and the consensus of opinion is that, we wanted to dance and we would have stuck at it either way. 

 

Do you have a dancing son and have you experienced this?

 

Is it mainly women who do this, or have you experienced the same thing from male teachers/adjudicators etc?

 

How does this kind of thing make you feel as the parent of a dancing son?

 

Do you think boys need this kind of special treatment?

 

What other ways are there of keeping boys engaged with dance if they are the only boy in the class?

 

 

[Ballet_Is_King]

I almost forgot to add that I think the leniency shown towards boys today is even more worrying.

 

Dance teachers (nearly always women it has to be said), seem afraid to tell boys that they have to wear a leotard and dance shorts or tights for ballet. I have guest taught at schools where every girl has been dressed immaculately in leotard and tights and then there has been a boy in the corner wearing jogging bottoms and a t-shirt. When asked, the teacher's response is always the same, that they don't want to make the boy feel self conscious and put him off dancing. If the boy loves dancing, why would that happen? When girls start their period and start getting breasts, surely they feel just as self conscious, if not more?

 

What happens if these boys then want to go into the industry? What happens when they turn up to auditions and have to dance in proper dance wear for the first time? And how uncomfortable would it be for a young man to go to a ballet school or dance college and have to wear leotard, tights and dance belts to every class when they've never had to before? Surely it is doing a dis-service to have these differing standards for boys?

[Ellie]

As a teacher and mum of a DS these are my feelings !

 

In pre vocational classes, yes, boys get away with more than girls. At vocational schools, also yes (but perhaps less so). I have seen female teachers being tougher on boy voc students than their male counterparts, so I suppose that is down to the teacher and not the gender.

 

Personally I don't agree with this differentiation, especially as I know that it can be detrimental to the rest of the class, a boy (or girl) who comes into class and thinks that they can mess about/not stick to the rules is disruptive and difficult for both  students and teacher. But, what is the ratio of boys to girls attending ballet classes ?! They are probably still in the minority and even at voc schools the AD could be thinking about numbers for future pas de deux classes etc and the fact that it is supposed that boys develop more slowly than girls so it may be necessary to give them more leeway...............

 

In my experience the boys who want to try their best will do so, no matter what the approach of the teacher (exactly the same as girls), but in an ideal world, no I don't think that we should allow our boys to feel 'entitled'

[Happymum]

As a mum of a dancing son I don't think he was ever "entitled" to anything or got higher marks at exams etc. He also needs to wear the proper ballet uniform to his classes.

My biggest problem is the fact that there are no male teachers around. My son is very young but has been dancing for the last 3 ish years and did some workshops etc apart from ordinary ballet classes and it has always been with a female teacher!

[Dance*is*life]

I have taught several boys over the years and  I have always had to give them special treatment, because otherwise I could not have taught them what they needed to learn as part of their specific male syllabi.  Of course I gave the girls practise assignments whilst I taught the male version or alternative exercise, and I would invite the boys for private coaching to save class time, but inevitably the girls would have to work in small groups and the boy went solo.   Boys do need different training from girls and there's not much you can do about it.  They have a lot to put up with in order to dance, so yes they need extra help and encouragement to get them through the difficult times.

 

As far as the exam marks are concerned, I have had a mixed experience.  I did feel that one examiner gave some very good girls comparatively low marks compared to a talented boy, but another one gave them similarly high marks.  In the past other examiners have actually seemed to be tougher on the boys. It just depends.  I think the point is that when we get the odd boy, we do tend to nurture them.  That does not mean that I don't expect them to work hard, behave, dress appropriately and invest as much time in their dancing as the girls I teach, just that boys that dance ballet are still pretty rare and I think they deserve a bit of extra investment.

[hfbrew]

My son did not receive preferential treatment, quite the opposite Im afraid at times! (I was one of his teachers)

 

Ive taught boys only classes for years and am just as fussy about their uniform as the girls. That said, my ds has been around as a good role model. Generally I let beginners start with whatever they can move in but once they are settled they do have to have the proper uniform, this is no different to new girl pupils.

 

Now I own my own school (after nearly 30years experience!) I am having to have mixed classes apart from advanced boys ( who came with me with my former bosses blessing). I am finding though that more boys are coming forward thanks to friends who already come. And my ds teaches for me whenever he can which really helps. I really wished he had had someone like himself to look up to when growing up! Only last weekend he hosted a boys only workshop at our school.

 

A couple of my classes have just one boy in them which is why we did the aforementioned workshop. But in the main classes all the students are encouraged and included, regardless of gender. I dont think it necessary or wise to give preferential treatment but I do think that some of the differences in boys work (eg bow instead of curtsey) should be something a teacher is aware of. This may sound obvious but I did once come across a poor lad who had been made by his dance school to wear the girls uniform!

 

And Im editing this post to "nod" in agreement to above poster about the fact that boys tend to have their own variations to learn etc. I like the word "nuture" - which is something we should do for all students.

Edited January 29, 2015 by hfbrew

[Ballet_Is_King]

Just to point out, I'm not referring to differences in how girls and boys are taught technically. We know that in exam work, boys get some different excercises, but it's very telling that you forget that girls have female only work as well. In most exam syllabi, there are girl only and boy only variations and girls also have point work. Why is the distinction only relevant when it's to do with a boy? Is it because teachers actually find it a nuisance having to find time to work with only one or two boys in a class full of girls?

Edited January 30, 2015 by Ballet_Is_King

[Harwel]

The distinction is made because the boys are in the vast minority in non vocational dance achools. My son has had to have private lessons to get the boys work in, both in ballet and modern. Non vocational dance schools have to cater for the masses and that is therefore not the boys. I think boys need nurturing because they are usually one boy in a class of girls and that can't be easy. But I think they should be treated fairly - I have experience of boys being treated overly harshly and certainly a complete lack of understanding of what a boy needs in class. But, like the girls, if they really want to dance, nothing will put them off.

 

As for festivsls, I have seen as many 'miscarriages of justice' with the girls as I have the boys. It only stands out more with boys because they are in the minority.

 

Things which need addressing when dealing with boys dancing - don't speak to the class as 'girls' when you have a boy - this happened to my youngest and he came out if class thinking the teacher did not realise he was a boy. I had to ask the teacher to speak to 'the children' or 'boys and girls' . Many times at festival adjudication the adjudicater has said 'well done girls' and the audience has shouted back 'and boy', probably the poor boys parents as they see their brave boy shrinking into the stage back drop. Also, the boys should be allocated a proper place to change instead of a broom cupboard or the toilets.

 

In my experience having a son dancing in a non vocational dance school until 14, and having to take the teachers I can find within a reasonable area. Its amazing that any boy gets to vocational school at all after 11. I know there are some fabulous teachers out there but they are like gold dust, never more so than when it comes to teaching those few boys that have the guts to walk into a ballet class in their leotard and tights and take their place on the barre in a room full of girls. Personally I don't see the harm in a bit of 'nurturing' compassion for these special boys. But definitely they should be treated fairly as it is a diservice to them to do anything less.

[hfbrew]

Just to point out, I'm not referring to differences in how girls and boys are taught technically. We know that in exam work, boys get some different excercises, but it's very telling that you forget that girls have female only work as well. In most exam syllabi, there are girl only and boy only variations and girls also have point work. Why is the distinction only relevant when it's to do with a boy? Is it because teachers actually find it a nuisance having to find time to work with only one or two boys in a class full of girls?

Unfortunately I have come across a tiny minority of teachers who find having a boy a nuisance and have been on teachers courses where some refuse to learn boys work as its "irrelevant"to them. Ive not always been popular when wanting clarification on boys work!!

 

And as Harwel says some teachers will say "girls" and forget there is a boy there. Ive actually been guilty though of the opposite and called girls boys! Ive never been involved in festivals but as far as exams go Ive often found boys marked more harshly because the examiners are perhaps not as used to seeing male candidates who move quite differently to girls.

 

And whilst I dont agree boys should get preferential marks/ placings over girls if its not realistic, I do think that there are many who are unjustly subject to comments such as " oh well you won / did well because you are a boy" !

 

And Harwels comments about boys changing facilities or lack of struck a chord also!

 

One of my main gripes though is the marketing of Ballet as being pretty, pink and feminine as that is offputting to many children (girls included!). Its well nigh impossible to get decent Ballet literature for boys, or girls for that matter!

[Sadielou]

Boys are a complete different entity to girls and I have really enjoyed teaching the odd one or two that come my way as they have always been so enthusiastic and willing to learn. Must say I get very annoyed at the lack of ballet wear for boys, there are mountains of choices for girls, but on most of the dance wear sites there is not even a boys section, they are just thrown into the mens section which is also very small. Come on dance wear companies boys need choice too !

[Pas de Quatre]

I have found whenever I have a boy training there are always some of the girls who like to do the boys work too, strong jumps, turns etc.  To help counteract the "pretty pink" idea, I always tell parents that ballet is very athletic and suits the girls who are "tomboys" too!  

[JulieW]

Mum of dancing son here (now in his early 20s) and another son who did festivals from about 8-12 although not too seriously!

 

Both with my own sons and over the years of going to festivals with my daughter I have definitely seen boys given places above what I considered they deserved (in that there were girls who were more accomplished) and comments made by adjudicators about it being because of the "potential" shown.  Sorry, but at a festival, potential doesn't come into it in my book - what you do on the day does.  My friend's son was quite embarrassed by that happening to him, because he knew he wasn't as good and enjoyed taking part for the experience. I'd say I possibly saw that more with female adjudicators than male.

 

I agree about the changing rooms problem (not always, but often).

 

And I agree about merchandising not catering for boys - really hard to find presents for a ballet loving boy.

 

I think boys are luckier now that there are so many more workshops, associate programmes etc that cater for them and mean that they can dance with other boys and experience male teachers.  Even when my son was an RBS JA he was in a class with mostly girls (the fortnightly class).  Was never a problem, but then he was lucky to get into WL so we didn't have to go off on search of boys' classes as he got older.

 

Our school let boys start by wearing PE shorts and a t-shirt, but then they are told to get lycra cycle shorts with a gradual move to tights and leotards (they haven't had many boys - only a couple at a time).  I absolutely agree that boys shouldn't be allowed to get away with wearing trackie bottoms and the like.

 

Not had a problem with mine having to be encouraged to go to class.  They went because they enjoyed it and it didn't matter that they were mainly with girls (helped by having a sister I suspect).  My daughter made an interesting comment recently about when a boy joined her class and she was the only girl who went to speak to him like a normal human being while the other girls giggled away.  She thinks that was due to having brothers whereas most of her friends didn't (or had much younger brothers).

 

My sons and the boys now at our local school would sometimes be offered extra lessons near to exam time to learn the specific boys exercises, but that irritated a little that they had to wait until then.  One modern teacher was great because she thought the boys' exercises were good for developing the girls' strength so she taught them both.

 

Sorry for the rather rambling thoughts!

[Dance*is*life]

Of course it's easier to cope with just girls, rather than with a single boy in a class of girls, but it's not his fault that he's the only one!  And I would never shirk the challenge - I actually find it interesting to learn the male syllabus as well. The RAD is very good for working with boys.

 

The interesting thing about boys in competitions is that however good the girls are an outstanding boy will always trump them!   I have personal experience of that and once I was compensated and once not.  When I was about 14 or 15, I entered a modern cup comp which was part of the All England.  There was one boy and the rest were girls.  The boy was Tony Kemp, who became quite a famous TV dancer and he won of course - he was fantastic!  Still the panel of judges took the time to mention the girls and as runner-up they gave me a duplicate miniature cup to keep, which was very nice.  The other time I competed against one male student was when I was at the RBS. There must have been 20 senior girls in it and we worked for about three months on our rep solo variations.  Anyway, on the day there was a surprise addition who danced last - Wayne Sleep.  As soon as he had danced we were all called back immediately on stage and he was awarded the prize.  Now obviously no-one would quibble with being beaten by Wayne Sleep of entrechat douze Guiness World Records fame (among a million other things!) but the fact that they didn't take the time to think about the girls and perhaps give one or two an honourable mention really hurt.  We had all worked so hard and it was just over in one minute. That's the sort of thing that in my opinion shouldn't happen.

[CeliB]

Our experience for DS has been overwhelmingly good- I suppose favouritism he might have been shown is the number of scholarships awarded (to summer schools, vocational school etc) through being a more 'valuable' commodity. I can't for certain say this has happened as I never saw the girls he was competing with for any given place/award, but I have always assumed it is the case because boys are in shorter supply and schools want to aim for a 50:50 mix of gender.

I'm not aware of him ever having been given an easier time of it in class but then again he (fortunately) never had to do very many mixed classes prior to vocational school. He has certainly always (as has my younger son) been expected to wear correct attire (leo and lycra shorts wen young graduating to leo and 'tights' when older) and has never questioned or had a problem with this.

He had a few occasions at an early age (around 10) where girls giggled or other boys were rude, but he seemed to brush them off with little concern. I think perhaps we've just been very lucky!