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Intermediate Foundation- hours per week?


sarahw

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Children who only do e.g. Modern or Tap [rare, but there are some. Often those who have danced a lot in younger years but have had to cut back, due to homework pressures or another significant interest such as sport or music, do a modern class per week for fun] can choose to attend the 'show dance' class for a term so they too are included in the show. It works well.

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Amazing how it all works out!   And everybody copes?  I suppose it's what you're used to, so you just get on with it!  Yes, great set up. 

 

We have a performance every year and each class does a dance with each teacher, so it's very complicated to give them all enough time to change costume, especially if there is the odd student who dances for some reason or another with a higher group in one genre.  We've started to split the lower grades from the higher ones and have two performances.  That way the top students really benefit, because they are showcased in both performances.

 

We seemed to have drifted away from the original post, but I am finding this such a fascinating thread, so I hope it's alright!

Edited by Dance*is*life
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I don't live in the UK any more.  When I said Senior High I was trying to find a term to describe the final three school years for 15 - 18 year olds, which is when the matriculation certificate is done here.  Perhaps I should have called it the Upper School?   They study in a dance stream at regular school, for which they have to audition, as well as learning the full gamut of regular school subjects. The dance exam would be the equivalent of an A level in dance, in terms of marking. I have no idea how it compares content wise to the GCSEs.  They get 2 ballet and 2 modern classes a week, plus workshops with guest choreographers, as well as lessons in anatomy, dance history, dance composition classes (they have to choreograph a piece using their fellow students)  and music, all of which are examined as part of their final exams. The majority of our senior girls go down this path and still come after school for classes with us, where the ballet level is higher.  The choreography workshops take place over 4 or 5 months of the year and are used to prepare pieces for the concert that they put on in March.  We always breathe a sigh of relief when that's over, because then the girls have more free time and energy for classes with us!  Our RAD exams are in March/April and then our end of year show/display/recital (whatever you want to call it!) is in the first half of July.

Edited by Dance*is*life
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My dd is still grade 3 but has just started IF.

I was lucky enough to be one of the first student teachers to learn the old intermediate foundation as Sara Neil, one of its creators was one of my teachers. We were told that the syllabus was designed to train talented students from grade 3 upwards (from about 9yrs old). We had to learn and devise training exercises as teaching purely syllabus was frowned upon.

Even now therefore, where I teach, capable students in grade 3 are invited to start studying IF. After a couple of years they are either given the option of moving straight to inter or take IF exam which afterall is not a compulsory requirement for progressing to inter.

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sarahw, I'm really glad you asked this question on minimum hours per week needed to retain the option of vocational training. Not everybody asks it. Not everyone is lucky enough to to eg get beyond RB JA's but if they got there in the first place I've heard it's because they are talented. I don't believe it's the only route to a dance career and as DiL said, the ballet body a only needed for ballet.

 

The UK teachers on this thread have highlighted the difficulties they face with finding enough available dance space to teach in, and the high cost of lessons. There's also the issue of varying abilities in classes. In my Dd's dance school, it is assumed therefore, that the door to vocational training would be closed without a continuing associate programme. Alternatively they have supported people successfully with private lessons but it takes a proactive parent to initiate this.

 

From a parents point of view, it's difficult to accept that sometimes children are held back according to age in their RAD Graded classes. I have to say that after 3 days of seeing my daughter flourish at Elmhurst SS, it is upsetting to see unhelpful comments on Balletco about the unsuitability of the struggling twice weeklies (or words to that effect) at the showing of work. Sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place!

 

Anyway, I know now how many dance hours I should be looking for in order to support dd and that the idea of going in to the classes above actually works. Great!

 

BTW, DiL, you're such an inspiration. I know you have the privilege of having dance studios, but it sounds like you appreciate that and use your time to great effect. Your thoughts on here are crystal clear, I expect your teaching is too. And your support is tailored to a wide range of needs, even single mothers :-) ! We are lucky to have a great dance school but reflecting back through this thread, so much more could be achieved in dance schools in the UK with better financial support from the UK government for dance, eg subsidising cost of lessons and providing dance spaces IMHO.

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Piccolo I agree dance spaces are a major issue. I suspect many of the differences we have seen above relate to schools that have their own studios and those that use village halls etc.

I'm sure as you say there are ways round- but I would imagine the chances of getting enough ballet to consider ballet vocational at 16 are limited under such conditions. Now hopefully lots will post to disprove me!!!

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It's not just a matter of space but economics. In general, there are many more young children doing ballet than, say, teenagers and this is reflected in the number of classes available at each level. So, for example, there may be four pre-primary classes, all chock-a-block, but one Grade 7 class with four students. I was told by a teacher that students typically give up around the time that they start secondary school which is a huge transition. Homework is ramped up; they may have to travel some distance to school and other extra-curricular activities become available, more important or more time consuming (eg sports team fixtures may start to dominate the week). Some girls also become more self-conscious about their bodies. It would make no economic sense to replace two of those pre-primary classes with two more grade 7 classes.

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Location also plays a big part in number of hours available to a student. DD was limited at her local ballet school but with a 45 min journey to the nearest one offering her level, whose classes started before she could even get there, she could not increase her hours

 

I think it is always important to remember, however, that number of hours means nothing if you do not have the quality of teaching.  Perhaps in the schools that have relatively few students in the higher grades, a student can make up for getting less hours as they get more individual attention and coaching from their teachers.  A teacher has to teach to the whole range of abilities in a class and smaller numbers may mean smaller range perhaps.

Edited by 2dancersmum
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Piccolo as the mum of a Previously once/twice weekly dd please understand that our comments about the children who struggled at Elmhurst was more to do with the fact that they perhaps should have been put into a more suitable group so as a. Not to lose confidence & b. so that they could flourish & gain something from the course.

 

Prior to starting vocational school dds previous teacher offered for her to join a much higher grade class. I withdrew her after 1 week as it was obvious it was too much too soon. She wasn't learning anything as it was too high a level (Intermediate)

 

No one was commenting that the children wernt good enough or didn't have potential, in fact I commented on how the one child I saw really gave it her all even if she was unable to execute the steps.

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There are certainly children who go to ballet school at 16 who have not been to vocational schools. Some choose not to go to vocational school - not because they don't get in, but because they or their patents want them to stay with the education they have, have a more rounded upbringing and be at home longer. This I think is a tough choice, the parents and child have to have an incredible commitment to get the level of training that will be required, coupled with full educational commitments, social pressures from friends who are non dancers and often a lot of driving. They will need first rate ballet training, this I believe has little to do with hours, but probably at least 2 correct standard classes plus a private lesson (this I think depends on how many there are in the class). Technique is the order of the day, 2 excellent classes are far better than 5 where the teacher can't convey what they want, or doesn't demand the best from the child every step of the way. I know a 16 year old who has just started vocational training and she did not go to vocational school prior to this, she is however, truly exceptional.

 

My son has just started vocational training at 14. We did not want him to go sooner but it has been very difficult to get the correct training to this point. It got to a point where we just could not do enough for him, we live in the country, school was an hour bus trip each way (he had to get up at 5.30 in the morning and sometimes did not get home from dancing until 10pm). We had to change his dance school a year ago because they just did not cater for a boy (nowhere near enough allegro or time on boys work). We luckily found a fantastic teacher who I found had a much better way of teaching him. However, the journey time to classes was increased from 30 minutes to 45 minutes. We had to reduce the number of nights he went but he did 3 1/2 hours one evening and 2 hours on a Saturday - this included a private lesson for boys work. He also did an associate class once a month on a Sunday. This together with running my own business, a younger child who is fantastic at drama and singing and a normal busy house was certainly putting a strain on me. I knew, that to compete at 16 he needed more but I just didn't see where it was going to fit in, also, for a boy at 'normal' secondary school (while he was never bullied) he was starting to struggle with reconciling his love of dance and trying to fit in with his peer group, I often felt he had to be 2 people. Now he has just done his first week at vocational school I don't think he can quite believe how wonderful it is!! To have instant friends who understand what he does, to be able to get up at 7in the morning spend half his day doing what he loves - well how perfect. I would have loved to have him with us until 16 but I honestly think he would have given up, as it was just too difficult on him personally. There is no 'one way' but which ever way it's done, make no mistake it is not for the faint hearted. There are ups and downs, tears and tantrums (mostly me!) but our lives have been richer for the journey.

 

If I can offer any advice for parents embarking on this journey (and I am talking about the child who wants to try and make dance a career, not the vast majority who just want to have a fun hobby). Choose a teacher who is kind, empathetic to your child's dreams and one who has a reputation for results when it comes to getting children into vocational school at all levels and ages. Then just enjoy what your child achieves.

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I can confirm that DCs who haven't attended vocational schools do indeed get into vocational schools at 16. Mine did exactly that, graduated this summer and is currently a month into a professional ballet career.

 

It wasn't always easy, but I'm glad we took the route we did despite as Harwel says it being a slog at times. Our choice was for DC to have a fully rounded education with an broad range of career options being supported. DC's 'normal' academic school was a key factor in supporting the need for time off and delayed homework. They were brilliant.

 

Absolutely agree too that the quality of training is more important than the quantity. DC was very lucky to have a fantastic teacher who wasn't precious about talented students getting good quality additional training and actively encouraged getting to as many taster days, courses, associate schemes and workshops at the major ballet schools and assemblies as possible. These are great experience for the dancer who gets quality training and an opportunity to check out the schools and faculty. We parents also got invaluable feedback by doing this. If they think the dancer has what they want they'll let you know. We found that often one opportunity led to another.

 

Dancers joining ballet school 6th form from non-vocational schools are definitely in the minority but they're not that rare either. Those I know don't seem to have struggled any more than those from vocational schools. It certainly doesn't seem to have held them back and they have just blended in with classmates from numerous schools, cultures and countries and had a fantastic experience.

 

I'm also happy to share experience with others considering this route.

Edited by BankrollingBallet
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Yes indeed, I actually have a friend whose son learnt once, maybe twice a week until he was 14, when he was accepted to Central's Associates, which gave him 4 classes on a saturday.  That was when he started to develop. He took his Intermediate as an Associate and at 16 started full time at Central.  He's now a professional ballet dancer and a very good one too!  

 

I also had a talented male student, who was accepted for the RBS summer school when he was 13 after doing just two classes a week at Intermediate Foundation level.  That year the boys class was for 13 to 17 year olds and he really struggled picking up the steps.  I remember going to watch and being quite upset that he wasn't really ready for what was expected of him. However, when I spoke to the teacher, he shook off my apologetic concern - What do you expect on two lessons a week?  He's doing very well indeed - stop worrying!  He was tremendously understanding and encouraging!  And indeed by the end of the second week my young lad was keeping up well (some of the big boys adopted him and helped him out!).  There were actually only two 13 year olds in the boys class and they realised that it wasn't the greatest idea to put them with 16 year olds, so in fact the next year they moved all the 13 and 14 year olds (girls too) to the White Lodge summer school, which was much better and he was accepted again for that. By that time he was 14 and had passed Intermediate,  They invited him back for a third time to attend senior SS in the newly built Covent Garden studios when he was 15, which was amazing.  By then he had taken Advanced Foundation and had no trouble keeping up, even though this time he was again the youngest in a group that included 19 year olds!  They didn't accept him for full time training, but he went to Elmhurst for two years, before turning pro. 

 

Yes as BankrollingBallet noted, you just have to be ingenious at getting them as much extracurricular dance lessons and courses as you can to suppliment.  I found another lone boy dancer, whose mother was willing to drive him anywhere to get him extra training, and I arranged for the two boys to have private coaching with a male teacher/professional dancer.  He also did any and every short course that I could send him to, and I worked with him privately in order to teach him the RAD male syllabi.  It's hard, but the talented ones can make it with a little more push! 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just wanted to thank all the contributors to this thread. I've just joined today, from New Zealand (but we do RAD). I was fretting as DD is nearly 11, had 6 years of ballet and only this year has done private lessons and just started competing. Sitting RAD Grade 3 in 2 weeks, and has been asked to move into IF next year (our year starts in Feb). I was worried about how much she was missing by not doing Gr 4 and 5 (although her teacher says they will make up the gaps in her private lessons). But now I see how much variation there is across schools, I feel much more reassured about it all. What a relief! Thank you all  :D

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  • 3 months later...

My dd goes to a vocational school and only has one RAD class a week , she's recently just taken her RAD intermediate ballet exam and got 100% . She practiced most nights with the DVD which I'm sure helped . The best thing I ever bought ;) although she has lots of ballet all week only one RAD class .

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Just had classes confirmed for 2015 (NZ school year starts in Feb) and DD has three IF classes, one open IF/performance class (whatever that is), and her private lesson each week. One-hour classes and half an hour for private. The head of our school is on the RAD examiners' board so I guess this is how she likes to do it. Our studio only has vocational after Gr 5 at the moment – I guess if you don't want to do vocational you have to go somewhere else. But our studio has merged with the best one so we are still figuring out how it works (DD was one of the oldest in our original school so we have merged with a school that has seniors and we are the newbies). They may introduce Grades 6+ if there is demand, I guess. (Hope that made sense)

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At the moment I only do 1hr of inter foundation, plus 1 hour of grade 6, 1 hour (soon to be 4) of intermediate, 2 hours of teaching, an hour of stretch and 1hr of grade 6 modern plus 1.5 hours of unset contemporary. So while I don't so that much inter foundation my technique is being strengthened by the other classes but like you said Dance*is*life I'm getting a bit muddled!

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My dd goes to a vocational school and only has one RAD class a week , she's recently just taken her RAD intermediate ballet exam and got 100% . She practiced most nights with the DVD which I'm sure helped . The best thing I ever bought ;) although she has lots of ballet all week only one RAD class .

Well done to your DD! 100%! What a fantastic achievement.

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