Nelly the Elephant Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 You are right too Aileen that it is public information but please allow me to feel uncomfortable about it if I want!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 On this forum we have a policy of not "outing" other people's children. The information might be "out there" but do we know for sure that the parents in question have discussed the WL offer with Elmhurst? I know nobody has mentioned names but with small yeargroups in Vocational schools it would not be that difficult to narrow things down. I would not want my child's situation discussed by others on a public forum, especially at such an early stage. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldermum Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I know the boy whose staying with Elmhurst - his mum didn't announce anything until after she'd spoken to both schools. I'm sure it will have been the same for both girls. Their news had already been announced on facebook, instagram and snapchat before anyone commented on here and they all will have included their names. Most people just wanted to congratulate them, I know I certainly did. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyelliott Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I can confirm oldermums comments above and add my congratulations ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 While I think this is lovely for the children concerned as it is very affirming and positive for them, I also think it must be an incredibly hard decision for the parents. The children have clearly excelled with the training they have been given and let's face it, not everyone excels at RBS. However, the reputation of RBS is a very big draw as everyone sees the success stories, but very few see the fallout from those rejected halfway through their training - the only way that these children have gained a place is because some other lovely dancer has been deemed unsuitable at a very vulnerable stage of their personal development. I believe the very best students will gain employment, but they have to have training that nurtures them and that can be from any of the top vocational schools. I think upper school placing is far more important than lower school and as I understand it a large percentage often don't go from WL to US - something that is very different year on year. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly the Elephant Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I've read this forum for ages and it is great at giving support and advice but I'm not sure why other people's children are considered 'fair game' when it comes to what is discussed. Just because something is public knowledge doesn't mean it's appropriate to discuss unless the parent themselves has first discussed it on the forum. It may be being talked about on social networking sites by the children concerned but this is a forum for adults. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Autumn days Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 While I think this is lovely for the children concerned as it is very affirming and positive for them, I also think it must be an incredibly hard decision for the parents. The children have clearly excelled with the training they have been given and let's face it, not everyone excels at RBS. However, the reputation of RBS is a very big draw as everyone sees the success stories, but very few see the fallout from those rejected halfway through their training - the only way that these children have gained a place is because some other lovely dancer has been deemed unsuitable at a very vulnerable stage of their personal development. I believe the very best students will gain employment, but they have to have training that nurtures them and that can be from any of the top vocational schools. I think upper school placing is far more important than lower school and as I understand it a large percentage often don't go from WL to US - something that is very different year on year. This is not necessarily so. Some years at WL are not full as they will only take students they feel suitable and do not fill places for the sake of it. Also, as you move up the school, a couple more places become available in some year groups. Finally, if they really want someone they will find a place if at all possible. Sadly, people get assessed out of both RBS and elmhurst and one could argue that that the better the selection and training process the less likely this is to happen. I add my congratulations to those concerned, whether they accept the WL places or not. As we have digressed a little, does anyone have more news about the upper school places offered after summer school? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pas de Quatre Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I don't think we are really discussing the children themselves here, but rather the RBS and their offers after summer school. Therefore I don't see a problem. We support RBS through our taxes so have a legitimate interest in their actions,in addition to our main interest as ballet parents and teachers. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletqs Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I just wanted to add the places offered at US at the SS are after an audition which the students have to apply for. They are not asked to audition as that would be poaching and the school, I expect, only want students who want to be there! At the WL SS the SS application form asks whether the candidate wishes to be considered for the school at the SS so it is the parents/guardians that have set the ball rolling not RBS! Sorry I will forever stick up for the school. Though more than agree with a lot said on here 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna C Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I don't think we are really discussing the children themselves here, but rather the RBS and their offers after summer school. Therefore I don't see a problem. We support RBS through our taxes so have a legitimate interest in their actions,in addition to our main interest as ballet parents and teachers. It was the possible identification of children by giving their year group at Elmhurst that concerns me. Discussing the offers process itself is not a problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moneypenny Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 That must be a new addition on the WL summer school form then ... to considered for the school, as I don't ever recall seeing that on any of the forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirrups36 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I think I remember that question being on the summer school application form when my son went - over 4 years ago - and thinking it strange given the standard audition/places timetable. 'Poaching' is an interesting discussion and maybe one for a whole thread of its own! But at year 11, it isn't seen as poaching, just part of the standard life of vocational schools. I can see how schools may not appreciate having a student they are counting on returning in September, not returning. But then on the other hand, we have to make decisions that we think will be best for our children (with them of course) at that time. Which of course may include turning down WL places as well as accepting them. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadielou Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Think this is a very difficult subject, really feel for Elmhurst as I know personally how hurtful it is when a student you have nurtured ups and leaves for pastures greener, however also understand that having the RBS on your CV holds a lot of kudos and to receive an offer offer of a place would be very difficult to turn down. Do think however that if auditions are to be held then it should be publicised and not just open to those lucky enough to get a SS place. Would be more understandable if the SS itself was by audition but as it is literally (for girls especially) a lottery how can this be fair ? INMHO our audition. assessment process could do with a complete overhaul, because of our senior school selection process getting earlier and earlier as the years go on, students are being accepted for vocational places a full 7 months before the start of their training, this is a huge chunk of a child's life. A student turning up for training in September could have an entirely different body to the child seen in February. Several years in a row students have been accepted for yr 9 places entered the school in September only to be told in February that they are not suitable. The heartache is immense and surely could have been avoided if the students where auditioned nearer to the time of entry. So perhaps SS auditions are a good idea, but should be for all. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 That must be a new addition on the WL summer school form then ... to considered for the school, as I don't ever recall seeing that on any of the forms. No it's always been there from what I remember... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I really don't think that getting in RBS SS is a lottery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadielou Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I really don't think that getting in RBS SS is a lottery. RBS SS is done by photo and questionnaire, I know of may excellent dancers who have never been lucky enough to get a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat09 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 RBS SS is done by photo and questionnaire, I know of may excellent dancers who have never been lucky enough to get a place. on the US SS this year there were 120 pupils on the course .... 15 from the UK ... I'm not against a flutter but I don't think the odds are in our (the UK) DDs favour and, because of this we will apply/attend elsewhere next year. I am sure it is a great opportunity for those overseas,who cannot attend the mainstream audition to get seen, and, for RBS to widen their pool of applicants. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I know how it's done Sadielou. My 3 DDs have applied at times. The one with the ballet body has been offered a place at WL three times and her sisters never... I know it sounds magic but when I saw the end of week show, the girls had amazingly similar and good levels (only the girls though). I also know of fantastic dancers being turned down, my eldest DD being one, but the all had the "wrong" body for RBS (too tall, too long a torso,etc.). The expert eye can do so much with pictures I agree but it doesn't make it a lottery! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadielou Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) afab, i notice that you are located in France, I do think that those from abroad as Kat09 has said have more chance of getting a place than those from UK you just have to look at attendant list. Have been to watch SS many times and maybe this year was different as I wasn't there and can't comment but INMHO it is a lottery. But regardless my original point was that there maybe quite a few students who would have loved a chance to audition/re audition for a WL/US place and as they were not chosen for SS didn't get this opportunity. The audition process comprises of (virtually) the same photos and questionnaire but regardless all get a chance to audition. Just trying to say that there maybe a few students that for what ever reason couldn't audition in Feb or some that may have improved / changed greatly since Feb, also know of several students that were assessed out and left in Feb that would have loved the chance to re audition for the new WL hierachy. Just don't think it is a level playing field, but I guess that's life! Edited August 5, 2014 by Sadielou 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Just to finish off on the subject of being abroad... I know that foreign students seem to get a lot of the places at RBS SSs and there has been many discussions in different threads on whys before... The talented dancers I was talking about and who didn't get a place were all from abroad actually... I simply hope you are not thinking that training abroad gets you a place more easily on principle... For the rest of the discussion at having a second chance to apply, I agree with you that it would be nice but as you say, it's life! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Since when has the ballet word ever been fair. It never has and I can't see it changing. The Royal Ballet is for the most elite, we all know this, they can pick and choose who they want but then again so do the other top schools. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stirrups36 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 and after all it is the Royal Ballet School INTERNATIONAL summer school, so you would expect a lot of countries to be represented and for the majority not to be from the UK. My son is currently on an international summer school in another country, and local dancers are few. But as for students from the US, Far East, South America, Australia and other parts of Europe, well, that's what makes it international. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulip Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 I think this year for older UK girls there was only five of them. So a real privilidge to get a place. I have to also add surprisingly for the older girls anyway, there were lots of different shapes and sizes. Clearly the royal SS were not just selecting the very slim girls. I really do not know when making their selections from photographs what they are really looking at. I'm just glad my daughter thoroughly enjoyed her experience there. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balletla Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I would caution anyone offered a place at White Lodge against accepting a place because of the 'name' and really think about the environment in which your child would best flourish. If they are going to 'make it' they will do so at Elmhurst or any other school. I am really surprised at the 'poaching' for White Lodge as I have experience only a couple of years ago of someone specifically being told that they really don't like to do this and only like to take someone from a UK school through the UK audition rounds. There has been a new academic principal appointed at the start of the last academic year and by all accounts she is making radical changes throughout the school. Judging by the mass exodus of pastoral and supporting staff and a high proportion of artistic staff, not many of these changes are popular. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Perhaps it doesn't matter all that much whether you tick the box for audition at the ss. Whichever school it is, and whether during the ss, other courses or at auditions throughout the year, if they really like what they see then they will offer a place regardless. I know of at least three students who have attended courses at different schools and been offered a place then and there! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now