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Dance and Drama Awards


Millie3

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Does the Uni debt get wiped out if it remains unpaid for a length of time - 10 years springs to mind. Cld be wrong.

 

After 30 years, so a bit like a mortgage, only 5 years longer.

 

Don't get me wrong - I know there is limited money and there needs to be some kind of system for apportioning it, but I do believe the systems could be a lot fairer than they are - they appear to be rushing changes in without proper care and attention to the impact and there always seems to be a disproportionate effect on the middle earners.

Edited by Ribbons
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I have today received a very long email from the Dept of Education which I will post when I get home. Doesn't give alot away but does say the schools found out on the 12 Dec if they were to be part of the scheme next year. Levels of funding will be available early 2013.

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I wrote to question the department if there would be any overlap for families with some children on

Thank you for your email about changes to the Dance and Drama Award (DaDA) scheme from September 2013. I am replying as a member of the policy team responsible for financial support for 16-19 year olds including DaDAs.

 

 

As you are aware, a limited number of scholarships in the form of DaDAs, are available to help the most talented students attend specialist courses at private dance and drama schools. Awards are made to students on the basis of an assessment of talent, and potential to succeed in the profession.

From September 2013, DaDAs will continue to support individuals who show the most talent and potential to succeed at audition, as decided by the school. The amount of support for fees and maintenance students receive under the revised arrangements will be based on an assessment of their gross family income. The income assessment will be undertaken by the appropriate DaDA school, using national scales which will be made available publicly. The number of DaDA awards available will however remain limited. As your children were offered DaDAs under the existing scheme arrangements they will continue to be supported under these arrangements until the end of their DaDA supported training. Only new starters from September 2013 will come under revised arrangements.

The introduction of means testing is not intended to reduce costs, and we expect the total number of DaDA awards made to remain about the same. However a fully means tested scheme will result in students from lower income households receiving more support than they currently do, and students from higher income households contributing more to their overall costs.

 

Your email questions whether the revised DaDA arrangements will overlap with the support that is available from MDS. MDS and DaDA are two very different schemes. MDS supports a large number of pupils from 8 years of age at a range of schools - covering academic education as well as vocational studies. DaDA on the other hand is a much smaller scheme supporting post 16 students at private schools with vocational study leading to one of a small number of specific qualifications. Both schemes have limited and fixed budgets. It would not be affordable or practical to offer further support through DaDA because a family had already been means tested for MDS support. It is obviously a matter of individual choice as to whether your children choose to study at a private institution and beyond the support offered through DaDA there is no further public funding available for additional support.

 

We appreciate that families with several children face greater costs in educating them and considered this in looking at how DaDA should operate. But other families may also have dependent family they are struggling to support such as elderly relatives, or they may have other specific financial constraints. Therefore given our intention to support as many young people as possible, the limited and fixed DaDA budget available, and the need to be fair to all families, we will not be allowing extra support for siblings.

 

Thank you for writing to us about this important matter.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Looks like they expect the same family income to max out for multiple children. Not looking very hopeful for my guys !

 

 

 

 

 

Susan Baranovich

Participation Division

and some on the new means tested dada as the MDS already stretches the budget to what a family could afford and would that contribution be calculated in when adjusting fgures for dada. This is the reply:

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Thank you for your query of 5 December about changes to the Dance and Drama Award (DaDA) scheme from September 2013. I am replying as a member of the policy team responsible for financial support for 16-19 year olds, including DaDAs.

As you are aware, a limited number of scholarships in the form of DaDAs, are available to help the most talented students attend specialist courses at private dance and drama schools, as opposed to the state maintained schools attended by most young people in England.

In your email your raise concerns about how the awards will be made from September 2013, and whether funding will still be available for schools to make the awards. Under the revised arrangements, DaDA funding will still be available and will continue to support individuals who schools believe show the most talent and potential to succeed at audition. The audition process itself is therefore progressing as normal. However, if a student is offered an award the precise amount of support for fees and maintenance they receive will be based on an assessment of their gross family income. The income assessment will be undertaken by the appropriate DaDA school, using national scales which will be available publicly - but the number of DaDA awards available will remain limited.

Schools were informed on Wednesday 12 December whether they will be part of the DaDA scheme in 2013/14. DaDA schools will receive an indication of how much DaDA funding they will be allocated for 2013/14 in February, in line with previous years. Schools will then decide which students will be provisionally offered an award subject to the appropriate income evidence being received. It has never been possible for a school to offer a DaDA prior to receiving confirmation of their following year’s allocation. Therefore the fact the national scales are not currently available should not affect the audition process itself though we appreciate that successful students will not know the precise level of support they will receive. You will be able to find out more about the household income thresholds from DaDA schools and on the Department for Education Website early in 2013:

www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeople/youngpeople/studentsupport/a00203099/dada-scheme.

You also raised a concern that the changes to DaDA would make dance training something for the rich, and those with the talent but not the money would be unable to receive the training they require. This is not the case, the introduction of a fully means tested scheme means that students from lower income households will receive more support than they currently do and students from higher income households will have to contribute more.

 

You mentioned that the different way individuals are assessed for a Music and Dance Scheme Award (MDS) and DaDA seemed unfair. MDS and DaDA are two very different schemes. MDS supports a large number of pupils from 8 years of age at a range of schools - covering academic education as well as vocational studies. DaDA on the other hand is a much smaller scheme supporting post-16 students at private schools with vocational study leading to one of a small number of specific qualifications. Both schemes have limited and fixed budgets, therefore the levels of support and the assessment criteria will not be the same.

It is obviously a matter of individual choice as to whether a child chooses to study at a private institution and in making that decision families will need to take into account all the associated costs. I hope that the information above clarifies the position regarding the future arrangements of the DaDA scheme.

 

Thank you for writing to us about this important matter.

 

Yours sincerely,

Jo-an Higginbottom

Participation Division

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Thank you KathyG. :)

 

It's sad to hear them call DADA institutions 'private institutions'. I find the comments almost dismissive of the DADA schools. Its as if they are saying that they do not owe support to these 'private students' because they have selected their route to have a privileged time at a private school. Of course we know that isn't the case. DADA and uni funded courses often offer very different things and the student obviously chooses based on whether the course content suits them or not.

 

It's a shame that employment figures are not taken into account. The schools that produce the professional dancers should be funded! Maybe that's my simplistic way of looking at things but it makes sense to me!

 

Better still, lets get some dancing mums in the funding offices! We'd have it sorted in no time!! ;)

 

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Doesn't the MDS scheme already have the possibity to run until 19?

 

that is what the DfE website says -http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/toolsandinitiatives/b0068711/mds/rationale

 

So if a school is not offering MDS to sixth form, then presumably that is at their own discretion.

 

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MDS & DaDa cover different courses & qualifications.

 

MDS as far as I am aware are for schools with a 6th form offering vocational education alongside academic quals of a level equivakent So places like Cheethams school of music

 

Dada are for institutions often colleges offering a higher level of qualification (the trinity level 6 professional diploma) which is more on a oar with degree level

 

I think where a slight anomaly comes is that in drama & music it would be more common to continue at school until 18 then go on to music college/drama school at 18 whereas dancers are often accepted onto the trinity courses at 16 (presumably because if the limited career span for dancers).

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  • 1 month later...

For anyone who may not have seen this, I am posting a link to the schools that have been DaDa accredited for 2013/14 following a government tender process. I don't think there are any changes to what we have currently but some more eagle-eyed may correct me.

 

https://www.gov.uk/dance-drama-awards

 

Anyone got any updates on what the funding is likely to be?

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I was having another trawl on the internet yesterday. 

 

On the gov.uk website it now states that all enquiries about Dadas be made to the school for 2013 entry.

 

The other piece of info I found, that I was unaware of, is that the max tuition fee loan for students studying at private institutions is £6000, rather than the £9000.  Not sure how many of the ballet schools are classed as private, but worth looking into.  I expect this will affect those applying for musical theatre places too. 

 

Still waiting for that winning lottery ticket ;)

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I was having another trawl on the internet yesterday. 

 

On the gov.uk website it now states that all enquiries about Dadas be made to the school for 2013 entry.

 

The other piece of info I found, that I was unaware of, is that the max tuition fee loan for students studying at private institutions is £6000, rather than the £9000.  Not sure how many of the ballet schools are classed as private, but worth looking into.  I expect this will affect those applying for musical theatre places too. 

 

Still waiting for that winning lottery ticket ;)

 

I think you will find that applies to Uni courses not DADA's yet!

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The tuition loan even at £6000 does only apply to uni courses - that is not new. There is a list somewhere of the 'private institutions' and it does not include the ballet schools like Elmhurst, Tring, Hammond etc. However, I believe there is ambiguity over the accommodation loan.  We followed the funding and housing issues with our MP last year (its still ongoing) as our DD did not initally get funding.  The response was along the lines in above posts about 'choosing private education' for your child but that accommodation funding was being looked into as the government loan was supposed to be for all students in higher education.  Not heard anything further than that though.

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Hi Kathy 

 

I'm aware of Dada/degree distinction - but some of the dance courses are degrees, so it may apply.

 

Just thought others may also be unaware of this and it could be helpful in forward planning.

 

For example  I believe the course at Ballet West is private, so English students would only receive a £6000 tuition loan. 

 

Not sure about central, depends if they are affiliated to a university.  I'm sure someone on here will know. 

 

 

Just looked it up - didn't want to alarm anyone - for central you do receive the full £9000.

 

Edited by Millie3
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  • 2 weeks later...

Dd went to an audition yesterday at Northern Ballet and we were given details of the income bands for the new DADA scheme.

 

They are now also online

http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/xlsx/i/income%20bands%20%20new%20students%2013%2014.xlsx

 

Hope the link works.

 

As feared it appears that only the very rich and the very poor will be able to afford the more expensive schools!

I am sure this will have a very big impact on where our DCs are able to train.

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Oh my goodness!! Having looked at the figures it will be impossible for parents who earn around the 70,000 mark to afford this. After tax of approx 20,000 and fees of 32,000, a family will need to survive on 18,000 a year to put a roof over their other children's heads, pay all bills and eat!! I'm not sure who was doing the sums but that seems utterly ridiculous! It doesn't affect my DD as she is already vocational but now it will be so sad to think that so much talent may not come to fruition because of funding issues - how very very sad. Sadly it's the middle earners in this country who always pay both ways :(:(

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I am deeply saddened by these figures.

 

Talent is talent regardless of parental income. It should be nurtured.

 

Ballet/dancing is not a path to riches for our DCs. It is an art and a passion which is obviously not valued in these hard times.

 

My middle is feeling very squeezed indeed!

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Well that makes for depressing reading doesnt it!  Thank you for posting it though Encarte. 

 

Do you have any idea what the costs of boarding/accommodation up at Northern will be?  Just trying to get a complete picture of the doom ahead.

 

It is such a shame that so much talent which the Government has already supported will slip through the net at sixth form.

 

I guess the popularity of Degree based courses will increase.

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Hi BankruptMum

 

We were given a rough idea of housing cost. These seem to range from £88 per week upto £128 per week both for self catering in student accommodation by providers such as UNITE. This seems to include utility bills and Internet.

 

No info on other costs was given by them. Hope this helps

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This is appalling, utterly appalling. I could almost understand it if there was equivalent training provided by the state and people were making a choice to go "private" as they call it, but there is no alternative provision for classical ballet and they don't even provide access to loans. What they are saying is that they effectively aren't interested in supporting classical ballet training in this country anymore.

 

So so sad.

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 I agree with ribbons that there is no alternate provision for classical ballet so it should not be classed as a choice to go private. However there is one question over DADAs that I have not seen answered.  Currently there are not enough DADAs available for all students on a course so some are self funded or cannot go.  Are they increasing the number of DADAs on offer so that this is the model for funding for all or the majority of students on these courses or is it still only a limited number?

If more students are able to recieve DADAs then horrific that those parental contributions may seem, it may well mean that more students can take up offered places - earning up to £50k and the contribution is not that much more than at present - especially if they do sort out the accommodation issue.  As I mentioned before they are supposedly looking into the government maintenance loan being availalbe for all students in higher education, regardless of course studied.

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I guess the answer to this depends on whether the schools receive an amount of block funding or a number of funded places at the moment. I would suspect it's places so that this new means testing reduces cost to the government. Either way, the result would be to skew the intake towards those with parents earning less than £65k and those earning enough to afford it.

 

Hardly in keeping with their stated aim of ensuring that "Awards are granted to those students who are the most talented and likely to succeed in the industry"!

 

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The other minor issue I've just thought of is if my DD is offered a place, I won't know if its based on talent or ability to pay!

 

It really makes me think that either my partner or I should give up work for the next 3 years because one of us will purely be working to pay the fees i.e. you need a gross salary of £35k to fund £26k net/fees

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I've already written to my MP about this and she is taking this forward.

Having looked at the figures, our contribution if awarded a Dada would be £2,675. Add to that the cost of auditioning, travel, overnight accommodation, boarding, uniform, clothing etc plus having an older dd planning on auditioning at the same time for musical theatre and a disabled child that we receive no help or support for means there's no point in her even auditioning. Not looking forward to telling dd though:(  They'll both audition for degree courses, but if not successful, that's the end of the dream:(

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So no change to the maintenance grant then! If you earn over the magic £33,000 you still get no help.

 

Have to say I'm glad DS is about to graduate as under these payscales we would have to pay about £1500 a year more than we do now. Which would be impossible for us. 

 

Would have been nice if they could have brought the scales into line with MDS.  You can earn just over 180,000 and still get a very little bit of help there.

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This is so sad. My son could not have trained at Elmhurst without his DaDA - yes, there are some schools with different funding arrangements like Central, but this may mean that only the rich will train at Elmhurst or ENBS - I'm almost lost for words and feel so awful for those of you coming through the system now

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I think everyone should be contacting their MPs, including the schools lobbying the government.  A scale that cuts off at £70k when you consider the actual amount you are paying as full fees is ridiculous.  Our MP was already looking at it for us and I will be contacting her again about the new DADAs.  That scale would make sense if courses cost the £9000 of university courses but they don't so it doesn't.  For our income band the contribution was not as bad as I expected so there remains a glimmer of hope for younger DD but its a few years off so who knows what they will have decided by then. 

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Like many of you my heart sank when I looked at the new scales and feel somewhat trapped - we have to maintain our current income in order to afford our MDS contribution (DD is only year 7) but when it comes to 6th form we will very likely be faced with full fees! I despair! She has only just begun her journey and I feel there is a very very strong likelihood that we will not be in a position to let her see it through  to the end (at least at her current school)

 

 Is anyone on the forum able/willing to set up an e-petition on the direct gov website? 

 

I agree we should all be writing to our MPs - which I will do once I've calmed down!!!!

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I have been all over the internet trying to find a name or email address of an actual person who may be responsible for this funding policy but to no avail so I have put in a freedom of information request.

 

In the meantime, it seems the only redress is through the contact form on the Education website:

 

https://www.education.gov.uk/help/contactus/efa

 

I have just sent them a very long email with my gross/net earnings etc. and asking how I could afford to pay £26k out of that. I also pointed out quite strongly that their policy does not support the "most talented and like to succeed", it supports those on low incomes and rules out a whole cohort of talented and likely to succeed children whose parents earn just over the £70k mark and won't be able to afford it. I also pointed out that I am not "choosing to send my child to a private institution" but that I didn't have a choice because there is no state provision for specialist classical ballet training and that classical ballet training is unique in that it has to be undertaken at a certain standard at age 16 because of the physical attributes required to succeed, unlike other performing arts or contemporary dance, which can be pursued at 18.

 

p.s. sorry if this all comes out in a block - I'm on an old version of explorer at work and when I post, it doesn't maintain paragraphs for some reason.

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Also - where are the schools in this? Surely they can't be happy with their potentially reduced choice of talent pool?

 

Angela - e-petition is a good idea but no idea how to set it up. Also - any of the ballet.coers got access to press that could do an article on this??

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