amos73 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Not the job title, the relevance of their role to be in that position of choosing the candidates. ' the commercial world' is an interesting thing ... to be facetious when was the last time you saw Seb James helping somone put a telly in their boot ... To use your example I don't think that the chief exec of Dixons putting a telly in a boot equates to who chooses the students for a ballet school. One is delivery to a customer, the other is the careful selection of the life blood of the school. Just as any major decision at board level for the future of Dixons would be taken by the chief exec, it is reasonable to expect the director of a ballet school to be present at auditions. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seymour Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Not sure how many were judging the preliminary auditions for US but for Lower there were only two I think? Seems usual for international competitions to have a large panel of judges such as at the recent Prix de Lausanne. Also anytime a dance selection process is shown in movies such as Billy Elliot, Fame etc. there are always several people on the jury. Also minimum of 3 judges at dance festivals such as All England and for scholarship selection for prestigious summer programmes. Leaving the initial decisions for the whole school down to the same person/people can result in missed opportunities for some unlucky potential students? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat09 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 As everyone's path through life is different, I am a firm believer that the opportunities that present themselves to the individual are the correct Ones for their journey. As one door closes, another door opens. Don't mourn what is not meant to be but joyfully embrace what presents itself. Our culture seems to be so hung up on success or failure as defined by someone else - I love the approach that nothing is a failure but a step closer to success. Your own individual success. Have a dream, follow that dream but be open to the fact there will be kinks in the road and those kinks are taking you to where you are meant to be. Thank you for writing this Harwel .... it's just what I needed to read as one door is slammed shut .... looking forward to the next open door 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 As you are paying for the audition you should feel that you are being carefully considered instead of being used as a cash cow. These are young people's futures, young people that are driven and work very hard, I don't think it's much to show a little bit of respect to them. Too much old school, 'take us or leave us, we have thousands to consider and you don't matter'. At Hamburg school the whole staff are present together with John Neumier. He doesn't feel he's too important to staff it out. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleMary Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Not the job title, the relevance of their role to be in that position of choosing the candidates. To use your example I don't think that the chief exec of Dixons putting a telly in a boot equates to who chooses the students for a ballet school. One is delivery to a customer, the other is the careful selection of the life blood of the school. Just as any major decision at board level for the future of Dixons would be taken by the chief exec, it is reasonable to expect the director of a ballet school to be present at auditions. Totally agree! Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amos73 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Not sure how many were judging the preliminary auditions for US but for Lower there were only two I think? Seems usual for international competitions to have a large panel of judges such as at the recent Prix de Lausanne. Also anytime a dance selection process is shown in movies such as Billy Elliot, Fame etc. there are always several people on the jury. Also minimum of 3 judges at dance festivals such as All England and for scholarship selection for prestigious summer programmes. Leaving the initial decisions for the whole school down to the same person/people can result in missed opportunities for some unlucky potential students? Yes Seymour, there were two people on panel at lower school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theother51 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Size of School? While the head of a 250 pupil primary may welle able to attend every significant evnt in the school calender it might be rather different in a 1500 + student 11-18 where there is something of significance on average twice a week ( although obviously clustered e.g. week long performance periods ( sometimes several times a year even in the 'nillaest of 'nilla schools) and week long exam shows for arts / DT ) I'm not entirely sure if the size. There are 4 classes per year in years 7-8 & 5 in years 9-11 & spprox 24-28 pupils in each class plus 6th form. So smaller than most secondary schools but a quite a bit larger than most vocational schools. In addition the head also attends almost all concerts & public events at the junior school next to it. I am in agreement with other posters that the director should be in attendance at these auditions barring emergency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulabelle Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 So is the objection to the RBS down to the job title of the individual involved ? No of course not, I think it's clear from the discussion and comments already made what the objection is! Most of us commenting on this thread are parents with vast experience of the process and the hard work and training that our DC's put in to getting ready to audition. Our DC's have been training and preparing for this stage of their dance career for many years. It's disappointing to find that the director is not present to at least give them a chance to impress him. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Thank you for writing this Harwel .... it's just what I needed to read as one door is slammed shut .... looking forward to the next open door I wish you and your dd the best of luck kat09 and I'm sure the next open door will present itself soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Seb James is the Chief Exec of Dixons Carphone... I am aware of that, however I still do not understand the relevance to this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I am aware of that, however I still do not understand the relevance to this thread. This discussion seems to be about those with a little knowledge questioning management decisions and operational governance of an organisation and there does seem to be a fixation on the Job Title of the individuals involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulabelle Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 This discussion seems to be about those with a little knowledge questioning management decisions and operational governance of an organisation and there does seem to be a fixation on the Job Title of the individuals involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 This discussion seems to be about those with a little knowledge questioning management decisions and operational governance of an organisation and there does seem to be a fixation on the Job Title of the individuals involved. This topic is about people asking questions and giving answers about their DCs auditioning for Upper Schools. The process is fraught and traumatic enough given the numbers applying compared to the numbers successful without people giving glib and absolutely non-relevant observations. I think is I was auditioning for a place at a top vocational school, whose director has publicly given opinions about what he is seeking in people, I could well query his absence too. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loulabelle Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Do you have more knowledge than the rest of us mph? If you do, please share it with us if it's relevant to the discussion. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Do you have more knowledge than the rest of us mph? If you do, please share it with us if it's relevant to the discussion. Not about the specific organisation, just an observation of two decades working in professional settings including roles with Strategic aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 This discussion seems to be about those with a little knowledge questioning management decisions and operational governance of an organisation and there does seem to be a fixation on the Job Title of the individuals involved. Oh how wrong you are! Bless!! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petalviolet Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Personally, I was confused as to how one could fit a tv into your boot - then it dawned on me, CAR boot. Such an esoteric observation is clearly wasted on the likes of me. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amos73 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 This discussion seems to be about those with a little knowledge questioning management decisions and operational governance of an organisation and there does seem to be a fixation on the Job Title of the individuals involved. If you read the comments you will see no one has a fixation on a job title (in fact is you who keeps bringing that up). It is that the job remit (head of outreach) is not equivalent to School Artistic Director, yet the decisions being made under that job remit are decisions taken by School Artistic Director in other vocational schools, and therefore people are disappointed that is not the case here. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seymour Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Exactly Amos73! Outreach suggests branching out into the community to find untapped talents who may be unaware of such opportunities, whereas the AD should be present to discover the potential right on his doorstep and studio floor! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaybackSapphire Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 First and foremost, they are children. Yes most are 16, but are still children. Unhelpful comments can be quite hurtful when having to deal with the fallout of the no's. Yes they have to get used to the unfairness of life, but as a parent I certainly would protect my DD until I am in the ground. This forum is to support others through this rollercoaster of dance life our children are on, that's why I chose to become and will continue to look here for advice and maybe ignore the ridiculous with a rolled eye ???? Thank you to all those who do give wonderful advice xxx 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 As you are paying for the audition you should feel that you are being carefully considered instead of being used as a cash cow. These are young people's futures, young people that are driven and work very hard, I don't think it's much to show a little bit of respect to them. Too much old school, 'take us or leave us, we have thousands to consider and you don't matter'. At Hamburg school the whole staff are present together with John Neumier. He doesn't feel he's too important to staff it out. Hear hear Harwell - this is it in a nutshell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afab Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) And the audition is free there too! In Hamburg I mean... Edited February 8, 2017 by afab 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 There is no reason whatever for the upper school auditions to be scheduled for the same weekend as the Prix. Once might have been an accident, but three years in a row? The dates for the Prix are known months in advance, so it wouldn't exactly be difficult to arrange the school auditions for another date would it? If the AD wanted to be at the auditions for his school then he would make sure that his diary was consulted before organising audition dates. One can only surmise that he doesn't want to be there, and is only interested in offering places to high-flying competitors in international competitions. Incidentally, the year my dd auditioned, there were quite a few candidates in her audition who had come from overseas, including the USA and Australia. I bet they were mightily cheesed off that they'd spent all that money to travel across the world, and weren't even seen by the person making the final decision. mph, you are not alone in having worked in professional settings - and I for one can beat you there with more than three decades. We are really not as ignorant of the 'real' world as you appear to think. What the Head Honcho wants, the Head Honcho gets (in my professional business experience), so it appears that the AD doesn't actually want to be at his own auditions, because if he did, then he would make jolly sure that he could be, wouldn't he? 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 To be honest this yr was our 3rd yr auditioning. The first was for JA which was a pleasant experience. The last 2 yrs was for lower school and RBS was very much the poor relation when compared to Elmhurst where you were made to feel welcome given a presentation about what to expect from the school, a brief tour of the School and invited to view the last 5 mins of the audition where you could see the process of the audition. Last yr there were 4 on the Preliminary panel, this yr 3 on the panel. The auditions are always filmed , and the AD is always part of the paneL and gives a brief talk at the end. You come away feeling that it is a fair process whatever the result may be - however RBS couldn't be further from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) Of course things may mean a head (or artistic director in this case) can't attend particular events and someone else of any job title may have to step in - but to schedule the upper school prelim systematically every year on the same date as Prix de Lausanne so that as director you can never be present - ever- surely says to all the parents and dancers you have no interest or concern in attending. Edited February 8, 2017 by Flora 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 It will be interesting to see what happens next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Interesting the comments on Elmhurst process. You seem to hear nothing but great things about that school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 All the schools have positives and negatives, the trick is (after getting a place) deciding which is the right environment for your child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) Er well yes if you are fortunate enough to have a choice of school but for many the idea of picking the right environment is a bit academic and having decided to go for vocational school you get what you are given particularly if you choose ballet Edited February 9, 2017 by Flora 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Some will be better off at home though up until senior level if they are fortunate to live in an area where the standard of training is high enough. We had no choice, vocational school or change path at 14 and my ds only wanted to try for 1 school! I just count him very lucky to have got a place and the school is a very good fit for him. At senior level obviously they have to go away to stand a chance, I would question that if you only get one offer is this the right path? I only throw that out there as a question I ask myself and I would still probably let my child pursue their dream as you never know how they will develop and what chances come their way. It is a very difficult path for dc and parents helping them make wise decisions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I totally agree with you Harwell however they are only picking the best of the best, to supply some of the best ballet companies in the world. That shouldn't deter dc from perusing their dream and to be chosen for 1 school is amazing and as we know children grow and change for better and worse so no-one really knows what the future holds - children/adolescents also change their minds! Xx 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleMary Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I just hope they are picking the best dancers!! Dancer being the operative word. No good having big arches and sway back legs if you can't actually dance! Whilst the body must be pleasing on the eye, the ability to move is the most important attribute. There are many body types suitable for ballet. Simply look at the two RB companies. When I'm asked about the desirable physique for a dancer I always say, "a body that is strong with good technique and classical lines, a good face, decent feet, musicality and most importantly that x factor that draws you in." 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuscleMary Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I know of a little girl who was a beautiful dancer. She had a tidy physique with all the attributes listed above. Sadly she was turned down by RBS on several occasions. This knocked her confidence and as hard as I tried to persuade her to keep going, she eventually stopped dancing. Very sad really. At one time the RBS would've snapped her up but not anymore. As dame Merle Park said years ago when she was director, "we look for that light in the eyes!" I remember those words because that sums it up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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