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Questions about Lower School auditions


outofmydepth

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Thanks pas de chat

I think I will give them a ring.If we have the same time maybe we can meet up.

Hi toomuchtalent that would be lovely although I'll be so so nervous for her!  I've noticed you are doing Elmhurst are you also applying for Tring and Hammond?  We are at Tring on the 13th (and Feb 4th), Elmhurst on the 14th, Hammond on the 20th and RBS on the 26th. :)

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Tring audition is now behind us and according to DD it went as well as it could.  Lots of very lovely children from the senior school looking after the children.  A very good stay at The Bell in Aston Clinton which is about 2 miles out of Tring and also lovely food.  Taxi was very late picking us up in the morning (25 minutes late) so a very good lesson to book even earlier and just get there mega early.  Elmhurst tomorrow :)  a bit less nervous now the first one is out the way!

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Apologies if I am posting in the wrong place as I am completely new to this forum but could really use some advice. My son is in his second year with RBS as a JA and has just auditioned for White Lodge (year 7) and Mids. He had never shown any interest in dance and was selected from his school by a visiting dance teacher. He then did one year of contemporary dance before starting ballet. Three months later he auditioned for RBS JA's and was accepted. He has become a very dedicated dancer and lives for his ballet. We were totally shocked when he announced that he desperately wanted to go to vocational school and of course White Lodge is his dream. However. I cannot see how he could possibly get in being up against a lot of very talented boys who have all been dancing much longer than him. We are auditioning for Elmhurst but my worry is should I also let him audition for Tring and Hammond. I am so convinced that he will be rejected and surely it is better to get two rejections than four. If he doesn't get any offers does that mean he will never make it as a dancer. He tells me that he is never going to give up trying but surely no offers would mean no future. I don't wish to seem negative but there is so much competition I just can't believe it would be possible. I really would appreciate any advice from you more experienced ladies.

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It certainly does not mean no future if he gets no offers. As you say yourself there is a lot of competition and if he is not successful this year he may be the next or a few years after that or he may go at 16. All four schools have a different feel and what may suit one may not suit another so if he is desparate to go to vocational school I don't think you have anything to lose from auditioning (other than money and time of course). Good luck

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Thank you! I guess you don't want them to get too disheartened but I suppose it is all audition practice and I am learning that you have to be prepared to just keep going. It's very difficult as I never did ballet myself and really know absolutely nothing about it. He is really only interested in classical ballet and has no interest in musical theatre/drama.

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Welcome and good luck to your son. When mine started JAs (11 year's ago!) he was pretty new to ballet compared to the others and I was completely new to the ballet world. He caught the ballet bug once he got on the opera house stage with them and only auditioned for WL (Elmhurst wad only just moving then and the others really weren't on our radar). There's much more available now to students who don't go to vocational school - loads of associate programmes and performance opportunities.

 

Don't think you have to learn everything at once - you'll gradually get the hang of it like the rest of us!

 

Audition for anywhere he'd be happy going to school (and you can afford) and see what happens.

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If he has had 2 years of JA, then he is reasonably likely to get a place somewhere. My son never got into JAs, but is now in year 10 of classical ballet training.

 

We went to all's the 4 vocational schools that have MDS funding, as we had no experience of ballet schools, and it gave us a good overview of the differences. So if money allows, do that. It also meant we met quite a few of the same faces, some that we still know today. So a good time to have a chat, you'll probably meet parents from JAs at all of these, as well as JA parents from other centres.

 

All good fun really! And if he gets in - with a funded place - excellent. If not, then there are other routes, and we do know of boys who did not go to vocational school in year 7 who are at vocational school now.

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I think it varies from year to year.

 

Last year Tring had very few funded places possibly due to the fact pupils carried their MDS with them into upper school

 

Hammond had more (someone said about 12 but that's hearsay)

 

Hammond also offer bursaries I don't know about Tring.

 

For us we were lucky enough to be able to send dd to a private school anyway. By thectimecwe added that to the cost of her dance classes with the bursary we are now better off.

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Welcome to the forum Myveryownbillyelliot.  I am sure that people with much more experience than me will offer better advice, but I will add my own experience in.  My son is a current JA and we are auditioning for the big four this year too.  We could only go to Tring and Hammond if he is lucky enough to get a MDS though..... 

It is interesting that Stirrups thinks that, for a JA, they are likely to get a place somewhere.  That might be true if you can pay but perhaps not if you need a MDS at Hammond or Tring.....

Lots of the older dancers at my son's ballet school go on to Central etc after A levels (to do degree level dancing).  They have not attended vocational school.   A place at vocational school is not necessary to a career in dance, in my humble opinion, but of course it is if the goal is to be a principal dancer at the Royal Ballet.....

What you need to remember is that they are looking for a very specific body type.  You either have that or you do not.  

Last year I saw a boy dance who took my breath away.  He was amazing to watch with true x-factor.  However, for whatever reason he didn't meet the RBS body type (although he was accepted at Elmhurst, I understand!).   His mum's on here and if she is reading this will no doubt agree with me!  A little girl my son dances with is again a truly amazing dancer (wins all the festivals etc) but she is very muscular not lithe and was not even accepted as a JA.  A truly unique and amazing dancer may well not get a place at any of these schools, therefore, but that does not mean that they are not amazing to watch and destined, one way or another, for a lifetime of dancing.  Anyway, that's what I think.

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Just to add that even those aspiring to be principals in the Royal Ballet do not always follow a vocational route till 6th form. A recent example is Tierney Heap who went from a dance school in Manchester into the RB upper school. She is now in the RB company soon to be dancing a role in one of the forthcoming productions. Proof that it is always possible if you have the talent!

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Thank you suzyszoo! Sorry to be so ignorant but what is MDS? We would also need funding if ds were to get offered a place. I had originally decided against auditioning for Tring or Hammond as I thought it would be too much with Elmhurst and White Lodge but on reflection I should have given them a try. I telephoned Hammond and we are not too late to apply but Tring have said they cannot take any more for auditions now so we have missed the boat so to speak. I totally agree with what you say about the type of person the RBS are looking for. I know that flexibility plays a huge part and this is an are where my dis has struggled a little. However, he has worked daily to improve this with specific exercises and has improved vastly. There is a boy from our dace school who is amazing and was turned down I believe on the basis of flexibility issues. My ds I is so dedicated and after visiting White Lodge for a day has really set his heart on going there but of course he knows the chances are very small and the dream is huge!!

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Sorry ladies - another question! Before I heard about this website I asked a question on mumsnet about ballet exams. My ds's teacher (himself a former RBS principal) does not do exams. My ds has never taken an exam but the opinion on mumsnet is that exams matter and that vocational schools will definitely take these into account. My ds was accepted into RBS Associates after less than four months of ballet lessons so why would they place such importance on them when considering who to take?

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Welcome MVObillyelliot !

Although they may ask on the application form what exams have been taken this is only to get an idea of previous training and experience , it is not taken into account when deciding on suitability for vocational training as far as I am aware.

MDS is the government funding which is means tested - you can google it - it stands for Music and Dance Scheme .

Unless you have £30,000 + a year to spend on fees alone you will need this ! .........

If your DS is mainly into Ballet then White Lodge and Elmhurst are the ones to try for first , but the other2 are more varied in that they cover more musical theatre training .

Following on from Suzyzoo's post , I have to say that It's not true that all boys at RBS JAs get year 7 places at vocational schools ....there are more boys than places , but they do make up a large proportion of the successful auditionees , probably as they have already been selected to fit what they are looking for for classical Ballet .

We had not even considered Elmhurst until our local teacher recommended it as it was so far away and DS had his heart set on WL.

However we are glad we made the effort to go to Birmingham as he is very happy there now and the whole ethos of the school is more his style . We loved the atmosphere there from the first time we visited .

Places do come up in years 8,9,10 but are fewer, so keep trying as for a boy it can be much harder to get good training at a local school and my DS had a lot of bullying from his "normal" school and he just loves living with other dancing boys !

All the very best of luch with the journey

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I think that for students who are following a vocational route, exams are of little importance unless they want to enter the Genee or Phyllis Bedells competitions etc, for which they need to have passed the highest level RAD vocational exams with distinction. The very fact that they have been selected for such a rigorous training, amidst so much competition - especially for the RBS and Elmhurst, which as Billyelliott says are mainly focused on classical ballet - means that it will be recognized that their ballet training is being undertaken at a very high level.

 

For students who are not following a vocational route - or not yet following such route - exams are more important as they are a recognized and non-biased way of assessing the level at which students are working. Although exams are not necessary to gain a place in vocational training (or even in a company), a huge percentage of dancers will not be suited to vocational training or to classical ballet as a career - and those who have exam results have tangible proof of their accomplishments. Those who want to train as syllabus (and free work) dance teachers need to have certain exam passes under their belt. I am always surprised that some dance schools concentrate on festivals almost to the exclusion of all else; yes, performing experience is important but for the huge majority of non-vocational dance students, their future progress will require high level exam passes and festival wins, whilst lovely, will not be of importance.

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I should add that in today's climate exam results, whether correctly or not, are the barometer by which accomplishments and success in any sphere are evaluated. You may be dancing at what is described as an advanced level at a non-vocational school where exams are not taken, but that evaluation will depend on the dance school you attend, the abilities of your peers there, etc. With an exam result you have some means by which to prove your ability level against dancers from other schools (and worldwide, certainly for RAD and Cecchetti exams, I don't know how international other exam boards are). And that I would think that All England or similar top-level festival successes would have some value.

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Thank you legseleven for the ballencing comments about exams !

I should have said , but it was the early hours.....that they were only not important at this particular stage during the audition year and the only reason DS did not focus on exams was that the grade 4 class clashed with his orchestra commitments and so he attended the inter foundation class instead as his teacher pointed out that it was not that important in the grand scheme of things .....

Had he failed to get a year 7 place he would have continued to do RAD exams and has just started the RAD lessons again at Elmhurst !

Edited for spelling !

Edited by Billyelliott
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I have to say that I really do not think that exams matter.  My daughter stopped doing the RAD exams at 10 and went into vocational ballet (YDA) and there are no exams at all.  It is performance based and the classes are never the same.  Consequently they end up being very quick at picking up new steps, etc. 

 

My daughter is an SA, was offered Elmhurst at 11, got to Royal finals for Year 8, has finals at Elmhurst and Central for Upper School and is doing the auditions for ENB and Royal in the next month.

 

Those from her school has graduated to Royal, ENB, Elmhurst, Central, etc. and the lack of exams has never been an issue.

 

I think it is how you audition on the day and all usuals things, turnout, feet, musicality, potential, etc.

 

I think it is nice to have the exams, particulary if you want to teach at some stage, but again not essential.

 

They really are looking for potential at year 7, children really are taken in having done almost no ballet and always a bit easier for boys, as there is less competition.

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I just wanted to clarify for Hammond that lower school are either dance or drama.  There is no musical theatre strand for lower school.  The focus for dance is ballet but they do some tap & modern also.  There are plenty of students at 16 who continue with classical ballet as a career path.  If you read this thread back from the start I think posters with experience of the schools give details of what type of dance classes are offered at Elmhurst, Hammond & Tring.

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Thank you Billyelliott! Yes I realise that a lot of the JA boys will not get places. A friend of mine had a son at Elmhurst from age 11 but at 14 he decided he wanted to leave. He was a very talented dancer but lost interest. My ds is very lucky to have such a fantastic regular (ex principal RBS male) dance teacher. I can identify with what you are saying about being with other like-minded boys. My ds has experienced a few problems at his primary because of his ballet but thankfully the majority of his friends have been quite good but of course there is gentle teasing which does annoy him. We have now done the White Lodge audition and have Elmhurst on 22nd January. Did your ds get in the first time he auditioned and how old is he? Thank your for clearing up MDS, I have a lot to learn!

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Yes Mvo Billyelliott - he got in first time at year 7 and is only in his second term and he is still only 11 and quite short for his age ...you may spot him on the 22nd who knows - is a golden brown with curly hair ....

I was concerned at first that the discipline of just ballet might make him loose interest , but there is definately more variety there than there used to be and he simply loves boarding , also he is well aware of how lucky he is to be there . So far the discipline has not knocked the joy of dance (or the X factor ) out of him as his Modern dance teacher feared .....he also has been given permission to do Modern work in the Easter holiday for the Sussex festival which he is looking forward to !

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That's wonderful, he must be very talented! My son is also small for his age which I thought may be a problem for ballet. I was amazed when we went to RBS lower school on a two day course how many "small for age"boys were there.sorry if you have already said this in an earlier post but how long has he been dancing and did he audition anywhere else?

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