Audience Behaviour

[Belljul]

I have read this thread with interest and I have to say that I did find myself becoming more and more irritated by the list of irritations at the theatre and dare I say, see why Blondie has "had a go". Whilst agreeing wholeheartedly that manners and respect for the performers are so important, I was a little horrified that "being overweight, being wide shouldered, being tall, breathing too heavily, moving your head, taking in a drink, clapping in the wrong place, clapping too soon, daring to cheer made you an unpleasant theatre companion. I don't know when to clap. I try to work it out. I might clap too soon if I am moved to do so. Sorry. I enjoy a drink while I watch. I have cheered. I know we all need a good moan now and again so I am not taking this too seriously but I think I might rather go to the theatre with Blondie

[Anna C]

Well, each to their own, belljul! But to be fair, many people have listed only one or two irritations; it's not as if one person has listed 20 or 30 things which annoy them!

 

We're all entitled to have a little moan every now and then without being called names, which I think was what upset people. :-)

[Anjuli_Bai]

It seems to me that the things that can irritate us should divided up into at least two categories: those things which can be changed and those which cannot.

 

We can also divide up into categories where the blame lies.

 

If someone with a very large head sits in front of me and obscures my view - I don't blame that person. I'm more irritated with the architect who maybe should have raked the angle of the audience seats a bit more. However, if someone with a large hat sits in front of me - that is another matter.

 

So, though I may have listed the large head as an irritant - it doesn't mean I blame the owner of the head.

 

(hopefully that makes me less of a snob)

 

Same with a sip of waterr as opposed to crunching of bags and teeth full of crisps (potato chips).

 

Cheering for a performer is fine - but that's quite different when its a continual screech or a whistle that would be too loud in a train station.

 

Clapping in the "wrong" place is a mistake not a purposeful interruption. I don't blame the clapper.

 

Though a man sitting next to me has very wide shoulders and takes up my space (and arm rest) - I don't blame him. I blame the designer of the seats and the people who furnished the theater.

 

Just because some things may irritate us it doesn't mean we are unpleasant about it.

 

I think we just bemoan those things we can't change and hope that respect for others will take care of the rest.

[Willie]

After giving this some thought, I’ve concluded that I’m a snob.

 

I don’t want to sit next to someone wearing jeans. I don’t want to sit behind a big, moving head. I don’t want to sit shoulder to shoulder with someone fighting for armrest space. I don’t want a spilt drink flowing under my feet. I don’t want to see the glow of smart phones near me. And I certainly don’t want to hear anyone talking.

 

To avoid those people and those things that bother me, I endeavor to purchase box seats. Box seats remedy the spatial issues, as boxes provide plenty of elbow room, shoulder room, and head room for everyone (one exception is Palais Garnier – see, I’m snubbing my nose at Palais Garnier). Additionally, the audience behavior issues are resolved (or at least mitigated). I am of the belief that patrons who spend larger sums of money to obtain a box seat are more likely to dress nicely and more likely to be considerate of those around them.

 

Yes, I think I’m a snob. Please forgive me.

[Stirrups36]

audience behaviour - general rather than specific!

 

watching the Russian companies, there was a distinct difference in the amount of applause during the various acts. Watching one particular ballet performed by a Russian Company (I won't say which ballet just in case you have not seen it and don't know what happens! but it was Vasiliev and Osipova dancing ), after a dramatic death scene, the drama was a little spoiled by the 'dead' dancers coming immediately to life and receiving their (admittedly well deserved) applause... "It's a miracle" I wanted to shout.

[Jan McNulty]

Stirrups - I hope I sit next to you at a performance one day!

[zxDaveM]

I am of the belief that patrons who spend larger sums of money to obtain a box seat are more likely to dress nicely and more likely to be considerate of those around them.

 

 

 

Those dressing nicely don't have the monopoly on good manners and/or consideration. In fact, some of the rudest, most unpleasant patrons I have come across at the ROH are those in the expensive seats. Most of us less well off fans treat each other with decency and civility, even if we can't afford a DJ to wear, and the most expensive item of clothing we own is a pair of levis...

[Jellybeans]

 

 

Those dressing nicely don't have the monopoly on good manners and/or consideration. In fact, some of the rudest, most unpleasant patrons I have come across at the ROH are those in the expensive seats. Most of us less well off fans treat each other with decency and civility, even if we can't afford a DJ to wear, and the most expensive item of clothing we own is a pair of levis...

 

I would take this further and say that manners and consideration of others are totally independent of wealth and the way one dresses. Good manners cost nothing to teach or to exhibit. I would add, also, that the wealthy, or those who choose to spend what available money that they have on the best seats, are not always the best dressed. I feel that one may wear what one likes as long as it is not offensive, or has been mentioned, it is something that would block the view of other patrons.

[Pups_mum]

I feel that one may wear what one likes as long as it is not offensive, or has been mentioned, it is something that would block the view of other patrons.

I couldn't agree more. As long as they aren't smelly I really don't care what my neighbours in a theatre are wearing. It's what they do that sometimes irks me, not what they look like.

[Anna C]

Absolutely! Money can't buy you consideration, manners, and decent behaviour.

 

We were at The Ritz for the Saturday evening dinner dance with my parents for a big birthday a few years ago. Although dh and I had scrimped and saved for months and months to be able to afford the evening, we felt perfectly at home and the staff were beautifully welcoming and treated us no differently than the regulars who seem to go every weekend.

 

Dd was dressed beautifully, behaved impeccably, and was one of three or four children there. The staff treated her like a princess, and she was having a wonderful time, but on her way to the loo with my mum, they passed some obviously wealthy regulars who tutted and said that the Ritz was no place for children, disgusting, what was the world coming to, etc.

 

My Mum stopped, gave them an icy glare, and said "My Grand-daughter is the most beautifully behaved 10 year old you could hope to meet, and has better manners than most adults", and swept dd off to the loo. :-)

 

Being wealthy most certainly does not give people the monopoly on considerate behaviour and good manners!

 

 

[Frangapani]

(still laughing at Stirrups comment!!!!! - you have made my day!!! )

F x

[Nana Lily]

I have just caught up with this thread, think all has been said, however thought some of you may find this "guide for first time attenders" from the BRB website helpful.

 

On dress code:

"Do I have to wear anything special?

Come as you are! There is no dress code, although some people choose to dress up to make their night

out a special occasion"

 

On when to clap:

"When should I clap?

There are no rules about showing your appreciation of a ballet performance – the dancers and

musicians get a huge buzz from hearing the audience applaud and even cheer! However, it is customary

to applaud as the conductor takes his or her stand in the pit, both at the start of the performance and

when the show recommences after the interval(s). You are also free to applaud during the performance

whenever a solo dance has finished or to show your appreciation for the performance as and when you

feel it is deserved and naturally at the end for the performers as they take their bows at the final curtain

call."

 

I often think we are a bit too reserved in the UK with our clapping. Remember watching a tv programme about ballet in Cuba and their audiences are very enthusiastic at showing their appreciation during the performance.

 

Here is the link to the guide:

http://www.brb.org.uk/search.html?q=when%20to%20clap

 

 

Best wishes to the sons of Blondie and Kathy and hope you enjoy watching your talented children.

 

NL

[alison]

Thanks for that, Nana Lily. You've reminded me that ENB used to have something similar on their website, although whether it's been done away with in the latest revision I don't know.

 

I often think we are a bit too reserved in the UK with our clapping. Remember watching a tv programme about ballet in Cuba and their audiences are very enthusiastic at showing their appreciation during the performance.

 

Well, it's a cultural thing, isn't it? There are countries where people are far more enthusiastic in their applause, and others where they tend to be rather more restrained - is it China where pretty much nobody applauds until the end of the performance? What was described above is pretty much the norm for the UK.

[Lindsay]

I think what most people on this thread have failed to understand is that it is exactly "a cultural thing". What has been termed "good behaviour" is a mode of behaving historically defined by a very particular section of the English upper and middle classes to demonstrate their superiority to those of lower class/foreigners who fail to understand/accept that shared code. Behaving in accordance with that code allows those who are not themselves of upper class origins to ape that feeling of superiority and "belonging" to an elite. As a classical musician, I feel that the kind of "exclusive" atmosphere generated by such audiences alienates not only those who are not accustomed to attending classical concerts/opera/ballet but also many of the performers who feel they are serving up a museum piece rather than participating in a living art form. For that reason I have played in more proms concerts than I have attended as an audience member over the past decade since I find the smug "jolly good chaps and chapesses" atmosphere of the promenaders almost unbearable. Few people seem to appreciate that the expectation that audiences will sit in reverent, hushed silence is a very modern phenomenon rather than a timeless standard of "civilised behaviour". A bit of warmth and informality rather than "hallowed tradition" and icy disdain for those who are different would go a long way to attracting the "new audiences" everyone claims to be courting.

[Anna C]

Lindsay, if I'm understanding your post correctly, then I must disagree with your reasons why people behave in a considerate manner and are irked if others don't follow suit.

 

I like to think that by nature, I am a considerate person and that I treat others in the same way that I would wish to be treated. That has nothing to do with class, elitism or a sense of superiority. It is called consideration for fellow humans which I believe is classless.

[Lindsay]

But is the way you would wish to be treated exactly the same as everyone else on this board? We have already seen that some are happy to sit next to people in jeans and some are not. Some turn faint at the sight of smartphones while I know that other balletomanes tweet until the second the lights go down. Surely it is a relative rather than an absolute standard?

Edited September 25, 2012 by Lindsay

[Anna C]

No idea, I can only speak for myself.

 

The jeans certainly wouldn't bother me; the phone thing might depending on whether the show/ballet has started. It wouldn't bother me while the lights are still up, but it's very distracting in the dark.

 

I'm saying that if a person tries to behave considerately to others then they have a right to hope that others afford them the same courtesy, and a right to be upset if that is not the case. That is not a cultural issue, nor is it a class issue borne of any sense of superiority.

[Lindsay]

I'm sorry spanner but the fact that your idea of what constitutes consideration is not exactly the same as everyone else's indicates that it is precisely a cultural issue. I think the ballet companies recognise this, hence BRBs deliberately non-prescriptive advice on audience dress and behaviour. It is the tutting audience members who do not. Like Blondie I was depressed by much of the narrow-mindedness and disdain displayed in this thread.

[bangorballetboy]

I'm sorry spanner but the fact that your idea of what constitutes consideration is not exactly the same as everyone else's indicates that it is precisely a cultural issue. I think the ballet companies recognise this, hence BRBs deliberately non-prescriptive advice on audience dress and behaviour. It is the tutting audience members who do not. Like Blondie I was depressed by much of the narrow-mindedness and disdain displayed in this thread.

 

All I really want is to be able to enjoy the performance for which I have paid. To do that, I'd appreciate that those around me don't talk or play with their 'phone(s) during the performance (which is also courteous to the performers). Is that really so narrow-minded?

[Lindsay]

You are completely missing my point. Those are by no means the only things people have been objecting to on this thread, demonstrating that your definition of enjoyment is not the same for everyone. For example my definition of consideration would involve far less tutting, shushing and glaring, not to mention grumbling from early arrivals when people politely ask to be let through to the middle of the row. I could also live without groups of ROH regulars spending the intervals loudly b*tching about the weight and appearance of some dancers/singers while drooling salaciously over others but I accept that not everyone feels the same way.

[Anna C]

But Lindsay, your original point seemed to be that people like to insist on codes of behaviour out of some misplaced desire to appear superior and to ape the middle classes. Now you seem to be accusing prommers of being smug, and ROH audience members of drooling salaciously and commenting about dancers' weight (which I have never heard anyone do). Forgive me if I am confused about what your actual point IS.

 

I stand by my assertion that consideration for your fellow human is neither a cultural nor a class issue.

[Lindsay]

I was trying to demonstrate spanner that what constitutes a lack of consideration for certain people (e.g. me being annoyed by smugness and loud conversations to demonstrate that people are "in the know") is different from what may you or BBB may consider to be inconsiderate. Therefore what constitutes good behaviour or consideration is not the same for everybody. It is cultural, by which I mean dependent on a person's background, experience and beliefs.

 

And I think it is certainly true that the definition of good behaviour clung to by many "traditional" ballet-goers or concert-goers (in a more extreme form at the ROH and Proms than many other theatres, perhaps because of the large groups of "regulars" at both venues) stems from a rather uptight, British upper/middle class mode of behaviour. This is not a new idea. There are a large body of social and cultural historians who accept this phenomenon.

[bangorballetboy]

...far less ... grumbling from early arrivals when people politely ask to be let through to the middle of the row.

 

Definitely with you on that one!

[Anna C]

Does it matter WHY people try to behave considerately? Does there have to be some motive behind it? I cannot agree that it stems from a peculiarly British desire to ape the upper classes. I doubt there is a human on the planet without one little thing that irritates them.

 

With regard to grumbling at late arrivals, I'm permanently on crutches, so although I always try to get an end seat, it does cause me pain to be continually getting up and sitting down to let late arrivals through, so I can see why some people find it irritating. However, that's my problem and I certainly wouldn't grumble about it.

[zxDaveM]

surely 'decent' behaviour has evolved over the years so that people can gain the most out of the performance - which eliminates thoughtless, even selfish behaviour spoiling it for the majority (and talking and mobile device use constitutes this as far as I'm concerned). As a relative newbie, I'm happy enough to focus in on what I think is important (the performance) and frankly zone out most else, although, as I say, getting distracted by talking, or the glare of an iPhone as someone HAS to check that someone may have contacted them every 10mins, is pretty annoying.

 

I would hope we never go back to the days of barracking and heckling performers on stage, and fighting in the aisles!!

Edited September 25, 2012 by zxDaveM

[Jan McNulty]

I do not care how anyone is dressed, unless they are wearing headgear that obstructs my view. I do not care about people using phones (smart or otherwise) except during the performance. I do not care if people talk or what they talk about as long as it is not during the performance.

 

To do any of these things during the performance is disrespectful to both your fellow audience members and, more importantly, to the performers (or, Lindsay do you as a performer not mind?).

 

I will admit to asking people to be quiet if they are persistently talking. The odd comment does not bother me.

[aileen]

It seems to be a law of human behaviour that the people who sit in the middle of the row are the ones who come into the auditorium last, not only at the beginning of the performance but also at the end of the intervals! I usually take my seat in good time and, invariably, there are one or two people who are sitting at the end of the row who must have taken their seats the minute the auditorium opened. If I am sitting at the end of the row I tend to take my seat at the last minute as I'm afraid that I do find it slightly irritating to have to keep getting up and sitting down all the time. I don't tut though, but I don't like it if people don't say excuse me. Perhaps they should have a boarding system like on aeroplanes.!!

[Lindsay]

I barely notice Janet as the concentration required for performance is intense - even for me as an orchestral player and much more so for my partner who is a soloist.

 

I would just appreciate it if young people from a background where they are not brought up on classical music/dance could feel more welcome and less looked down upon when they come to performances without already knowing the behaviours accepted by the more traditional audiences. You could after all go to any football match or rock gig as a newbie and feel welcome and relaxed (from the perspective of not being tutted at by your fellow audience members - I'm not saying you have to enjoy the sport or music). I fear that the aura surrounding classical events is alienating for many. I also think this is a rather British phenomenon as classical audiences in continental Europe, of which I have wide experience, tend to be younger and dare I say less stuffy. I am not intending to offend or criticise any particular poster on this thread - just gently point out that a kind of groupthink can prevail amongst regular attenders that, quite without them realising it, may be offputting to newcomers, particularly those of a different demographic.

[Jan McNulty]

Thanks for that insight Lindsay.

 

I must admit to having been tutted at, which I mentioned earlier in the thread. Fortunately it didn't put me off!

 

I think one of the issues is that we are in the television age and I know I, for one, talk during TV programmes. I found theatre without having been taken by family members when I was young. It's so long ago now that I don't remember how I discovered the etiquette of attending. Perhaps just common sense.

 

Most theatres now remind people not to use mobile phones or take photographs. I don't think there is any excuse for then ignoring the request (as happened at the Lowry on Saturday evening).

[bangorballetboy]

It seems to be a law of human behaviour that the people who sit in the middle of the row are the ones who come into the auditorium last, not only at the beginning of the performance but also at the end of the intervals!

 

Well, in my case, it's because I've spent the time having a drink, talking to friends and going to the lavatory! Or, sometimes, because I've only just made it to the performance from the office!

 

I do always say "excuse me" and "thank you" though (and by the end of the second interval, I'm usually having a giggle with the person on the end of the row...).

[Jellybeans]

As has been said before, I think it just comes down to the norms of considerate behaviour. I find people being stuffy or haughty during the interval mildly amusing. If this behaviour carries over into the performance, it is inconsiderate.

 

I wonder what those that are happy to condone texting, talking, rustling etc etc at the theatre think of people who do not say please and thank you, those that queue jump or drop litter, those that play loud music into the night.... perhaps I am just being stuffy in thinking such things inconsiderate but if that is the case then it is a sad day for society.

[Stirrups36]

"You could after all go to any football match or rock gig as a newbie and feel welcome and relaxed (from the perspective of not being tutted at by your fellow audience members - I'm not saying you have to enjoy the sport or music)"

 

phew, that's not the same as a good number of football matches I've been to Lindsay! although I did once think a group of Chelsea fans were about to become very 'welcoming'.

 

It seems to me that respecting the performance is key. I would contend that the behaviours being quoted as unacceptable by all (although differing), would probably be the same outside the theatre/opera house/cinema, and those people would be equally annoying to those who have complained here if they were eating in a restaurant, waiting in a queue or just walking down the aisle in Tesco (Ok, Waitrose then).

 

So I suppose my gripe that Russian audiences and performances have lots of applause during the performance is indeed just another way of respecting the performance and I can now imagine those dancers feeling aggrieved at the quiet and seemingly unappreciative UK audiences.

 

It's always good to hear from those who play in the Orchestras. We have recently become friends with someone who plays in a Ballet Orchestra, and when we had watched a ballet she was playing for, she asked us if it was good and what had happened at one particular part when everyone was laughing. Of course, we hadn't appreciated that often the orchestra will not have seen the ballet at all, due to their position. Part of my respect for them is clapping as the conductor arrives and as the orchestra is introduced or thanked. Another reason why I don't leave as soon as the curtain comes down... which come to think of it really annoys me... but then again, I don't know why they are leaving... never mind - I shall just keep on applauding regardless.

[Willie]

... consideration for your fellow human is neither a cultural nor a class issue.

 

I quote spannerandpony, but this question is open to everyone:

 

Do different cultures, classes or generations have different standards of "consideration for your fellow human"?

 

I think so. When someone else's standard doesn't meet my standard, I get upset. Perhaps I'm a consideration snob.