New to the ballet world and have some questions.

[AshleighA]

I'm 28 years old and have just started to learn ballet. I have a few questions.

Is it totally unrealistic to expect to someday get a degree in dance if I haven't danced since I was a child?

 

Can weight lifting contradict ballet?

 

What exercises are good for new dancers to do?

 

What would be a good diet for a ballet dancer?

 

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by AshleighA

[Cara in NZ]

Hi Ashleigh – there will be more answers when the UK wakes up (but I'm in NZ).

 

1. I think it's unrealistic to hope to be a professional ballet dancer but I don't think your age would prevent you studying for a degree, depending on any practical requirements. You might have to research different universities to find a course that suits.

 

2. Any sport *can* work against ballet's aims but you can usually adapt – so for weightlifting you might want to use smaller weights with more reps. Ballet dancers usually want long, lean muscle so you just have to adapt your approach to avoid exercises that 'build bulk'.

 

3. Exercise that builds cardiovascular fitness is good. Swimming is good. Anything that strengthens your core, knees, ankles is good. It's hard to be any more specific without knowing what you want to achieve. So I'm just guessing you need to build fitness and strength. Obviously any exercise routine depends on your existing fitness, any injuries/ weaknesses etc.

 

4. A good diet is the same for a dancer as it is for anyone really. Obviously professional dancers have different requirements, but for most women, eating a good range of protein, veg/fruit, good fats, complex carbohydrates, and calcium/dairy are all important, not just for dancers.

 

I don't know if that's any help but hope it's a start!

[Kate_N]

At 28, you're unlikely to become a professional performing dancer, unless you have an extraordinary talent. But even those dancers who have trained from the age of 9 or 10 will not be guaranteed a performing career unless they're exceptionally talented - it's a very tough world. But a degree in dance could give you the professional skills to work in the creative industries more generally - as a teacher, an outreach/education officer, dance therapist and so on. 

 

The kinds of degrees available will largely depend on where you're located. In the UK, USA, Australia, elsewhere?

 

As an adult, any kind of physical training is great! Weightlifting won't necessarily harm you learning ballet - partly because, starting to learn ballet as an adult is completely different from learning as a child/young teenager. Other kinds of exercise will help because they build strength and body awareness: you get to learn about your body, muscles, alignment and so on. 

 

Can I give you some broader advice? As an adult, starting ballet late, you have to decide why you're dancing. You won't become a professional ballet dancer - I think it's fair to say that straight out. You need to make peace with that - I've seen adult dancers get themselves tied up in emotional knots because of a yearning that can't be satisfied. But you can learn for pleasure and the joy & sense of achievement in beginning to master a difficult art.

 

That's the way to approach learning ballet at 28: and then answers to your other questions flow from that - as Cara says, exercise and diet become part of a generally healthy lifestuyle, and not really just because you've started learning ballet.

 

I hope you've found inspiring teachers and good classmates - the world of adult ballet can be very exciting in learning new & challenging things, with nurturing teachers and fellow dancers' camaraderie. 

[Cara in NZ]

49 minutes ago, Kate_N said:

Can I give you some broader advice? As an adult, starting ballet late, you have to decide why you're dancing. You won't become a professional ballet dancer - I think it's fair to say that straight out. You need to make peace with that - I've seen adult dancers get themselves tied up in emotional knots because of a yearning that can't be satisfied. But you can learn for pleasure and the joy & sense of achievement in beginning to master a difficult art.

 

 

Just wanted to add that I started ballet aged 19 and danced regularly (3-4 classes a week) for several years, including a year en pointe and Russian exams up to Elementary. As I hadn't been allowed to do ballet as a child, I adored it all. I was so envious of other adults who turned up for their first class, stood at the barre, and from the first note their muscle memory returned and you could see they had danced when they were younger. If you've done any ballet as a child, you may well find the principles are still in your body and it's not as hard as for complete beginners. But as an adult, you have to be doing it because you love it. Good luck

[Jan McNulty]

Hello AshleighA and welcome to the Forum!

 

We have a number of adult dance members.  I've added tags to your thread so that you can see some of the other topics relating to adult ballet.  I think Kate and Cara have given you very good advice.

 

Depending on where you are based there are performance opportunities in amateur companies for adults for example the Alive Ballet Company and the Chelmsford Ballet Company.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Jan McNulty
edited to add links

[trog]

I take ballet class regularly and I also lift weights regularly. I've been lifting weights for 30 year, and I'm a qualified gym instructor, so I vaguely know what I'm doing. What works for me probably won't work for you but here goes.

 

I used to squat 85kgs on the bar - it didn't really have any affect on my ballet, but I I cut back to 30kgs on the bar as my knees didn't like the heavier weight. With the heavy weight I did the classic squat; with the lighter weight the Hindu squat, where your bum touches your heels and you feet are flat on the ground. My knees hurt less in ballet class and my plies are a bit deeper.

 

My ankles have never been the best - I often sprained them as a teenager roller skating. Over the last year, as part of the lighter squat, I've added a rise to tip toes with the 30kgs bar and lower with resistance. So the full rep is rise, lower, squat and back to stand. I managed to break one of my big toes doing this, but it's all better now. Pirouettes are more stable and I'm getting more good ones (well good for me - they are still rubbish).

 

I think the most useful gym work has been skipping. I used to love running on the treadmill. I would never run outside - too many dogs/pedestrians/cars/obstacles, etc - looking where you are going is a drag. On the treadmill, it was brain out and go for it, aimlessly looking out of the window until an hour and 12kms later, it was all done. My knees started to say "no!" but I didn't want to lose my aerobic fitness. I figured if skipping was good enough for boxes, it was good enough for me. I do 3 to 4 minute bursts between sets of weights. The result has been faster feet, especially on frappe and jumps are easier.

 

I've always concentrated on shoulders and arms in my gym work. Before I started ballet, cycling kept my legs in shape.

[MayKwok]

I started ballet as an adult again when I was 23, then went on to take the ballet teaching degree at the RAD when I was around 27. There was also another mature student on the course with me.

(I did maybe 2 years of weekly classes when I was about 6 or 7. I don't consider that proper instruction as I didn't realise the steps had names.)

 

Some people decide to not do the 3 year on site degree course, but do either the distance learning degree, or the CBTS. The full range of courses they provide that will lead to a teaching qualification, can be found here.

 

When I was applying for the RAD, I also applied for a few other universities. There were programs at Roehampton, Kingston, Middlesex, among others (I limited myself to London universities as that's where I live. There are other programs around the country). ucas.com would be a good starting point to search.

 

You're welcome to ask me any further questions either on here or on PM!

 

S

[TYR]

Why do people insist on this silly stereotype against women lifting weights? It's dead in the sporting/fitness world, it wants stepping on here. There are plenty of women where I lift. A lot of them are really strong. None of them has turned into a massive bulked out freak yet. That's because you need testosterone to bulk out, and they aren't on steroids.

 

I did used to wonder if weightlifting was spoiling my dancing but later I realised I sucked:-)

 

 

[taxi4ballet]

Linda Moran, a ballet teacher at Central School of Ballet recently competed at the 5th IPF World Classic Powerlifting Championships in Minsk and won several medals.

[AshleighA]

A few of you asked a few things about me and here are the answers:

I want to learn to dance because ballet has been an obsession of mine all my life and never got around to learning it. I don't expect to become a professional dancer but would enjoy working in the field possibly as a teacher.

And I am located in Virginia in the United States. There's a college near me that offers a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Dance and also a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Dance. Does anyone know the difference between those two degrees?

[TYR]

2 hours ago, taxi4ballet said:

Linda Moran, a ballet teacher at Central School of Ballet recently competed at the 5th IPF World Classic Powerlifting Championships in Minsk and won several medals.

 

Damned impressive. I must congratulate her when I'm next there; I powerlift, although I don't compete.

[BlueLou]

16 hours ago, AshleighA said:

 

What would be a good diet for a ballet dancer?

 

 

 

 

Zerina Mastin’s book is excellent on this topic   https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/Nutrition-Dancer-Zerlina-Mastin/1852731354/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1501088084&sr=8-1&keywords=zerlina+mastin

 

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by BlueLou

[Mummy twinkle toes]

7 hours ago, AshleighA said:

A few of you asked a few things about me and here are the answers:

I want to learn to dance because ballet has been an obsession of mine all my life and never got around to learning it. I don't expect to become a professional dancer but would enjoy working in the field possibly as a teacher.

And I am located in Virginia in the United States. There's a college near me that offers a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Dance and also a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Dance. Does anyone know the difference between those two degrees?

You might want to look on the US dance forum: dancers invisionezone.com

I would contact the institution and ask them the difference and the entry requirements. University dance degrees in the UK vary. Some offer ballet whilst others concentrate on contemporary. In the UK most tend to be BA degrees- bachelor of arts. The Fine Arts one would suggest you may study other aligned disciplines with dance as the major but the institute should confirm. Check the academics too- is there a dissertation involved? Do I get assessed performing? Some UK courses have pure dissertations of 10000 words at degree level but other dance courses split this into a dance choreographed by you and a smaller essay in which you analyse the dance.

Good luck.

[AshleighA]

17 hours ago, Mummy twinkle toes said:

You might want to look on the US dance forum: dancers invisionezone.com

I would contact the institution and ask them the difference and the entry requirements. University dance degrees in the UK vary. Some offer ballet whilst others concentrate on contemporary. In the UK most tend to be BA degrees- bachelor of arts. The Fine Arts one would suggest you may study other aligned disciplines with dance as the major but the institute should confirm. Check the academics too- is there a dissertation involved? Do I get assessed performing? Some UK courses have pure dissertations of 10000 words at degree level but other dance courses split this into a dance choreographed by you and a smaller essay in which you analyse the dance.

Good luck.

Thanks. I didn't mean to disturb a UK forum.

[Jan McNulty]

2 hours ago, AshleighA said:

Thanks. I didn't mean to disturb a UK forum.

 

AshleighA you haven't disturbed a UK forum; everyone is welcome on here.  I think all MTT was saying that there is also an American site similar to ours that has a separate version specifically for dancers, and also that our educational systems differ.

 

Please keep posting and let us know how you get on.

[Mummy twinkle toes]

Yes, I was just providing the info to the US site as people on there may be able to give you advice too. You may even be able to link with students on the two courses you mentioned. I often read the US site as it is interesting to compare the differences in training between the UK and US. 

[Kate_N]

Ashleigh, I'm a moderator on the US site (altho' I'm based in the UK): it's called Ballet Talk for Dancers. There's a large group of very knowledgeable & friendly adult ballet student posters there (some of whom post here as well). There's also very good information about college study of dance in the US. It's mostly aimed at those students who've studied ballet throughout their teens, and are looking for a good college degree in Ballet or dance more generally. I'd recommend spending some time browsing there - but a warning: it's addictive!  

 

The difference between a Bachelor of Arts and a Bachelor of Fine Arts in the US (not the UK) is generally (but can be slightly different in each university), that a BA is a standard liberal arts degree over 4 years, in which you take a range of courses - including compulsory ones such as a language, some science, Freshmen comp, etc) - where by your Junior (3rd) year you specialise or "major" in a particular area.

 

A BFA is a much more focused degree with much of your learning through studio practice, in acting, dance, design, music etc. They are highly practically-oriented degrees, which often don't enable you to go on to a postgraduate (Graduate school) degree except the Master of Fine Arts (MFA). They are still 4 years, but instead of a widespread of subjects studied in your Freshman & Sophomore years, you'll focus from the start on your  chosen art form. There are some excellent BFAs in dance/ballet in the US, which give students the training they need to dance professionally as performers, but the really good ones are very competitive. It is unlikely you'd be offered a place as a beginner dancer.

 

College education in the US is very expensive, I know, so you might need to do some hard thinking and some sums, and come up with a game plan for the next 10 years. 

 

I think the first thing to do is find the best training you can, start going to ballet class 3 times a week, and also find a mode of cross-training which suits you (it sounds like that's weightlifting) and gradually increase your number of ballet classes so that eventually you're able to manage 5 or 6 a week. But that might take you at least a year. Ballet is quite hard on the body if your body hasn't had the training since your pliable child/early teen years. So take it slowly & don't develop bad habits in the effort to get your leg higher etc etc! Bad or sloppy technique generally leads to injury, once you start training intensively (and I'd say more than 5 classes a week for a 28 year old is intensive training).

 

You should be looking for a good school which trains children to go on into the dance industry, with a ballet focus (not the Dance Moms style "competition school"). You should look to see what their adult programme is, and are there levels through which you can progress. Then after 6 months or so, if it's feeling good, talk to your teachers there about your ambitions. I've seen quite a few young people (early 20s) start off in adult classes and progress through the levels and go on to further professional training. It can be done, but it will be slow, and you need to be open to thinking about many alternatives in terms of where you might end up.

[AshleighA]

2 hours ago, Kate_N said:

Ashleigh, I'm a moderator on the US site (altho' I'm based in the UK): it's called Ballet Talk for Dancers. There's a large group of very knowledgeable & friendly adult ballet student posters there (some of whom post here as well). There's also very good information about college study of dance in the US. It's mostly aimed at those students who've studied ballet throughout their teens, and are looking for a good college degree in Ballet or dance more generally. I'd recommend spending some time browsing there - but a warning: it's addictive!  

 

The difference between a Bachelor of Arts and a Bachelor of Fine Arts in the US (not the UK) is generally (but can be slightly different in each university), that a BA is a standard liberal arts degree over 4 years, in which you take a range of courses - including compulsory ones such as a language, some science, Freshmen comp, etc) - where by your Junior (3rd) year you specialise or "major" in a particular area.

 

A BFA is a much more focused degree with much of your learning through studio practice, in acting, dance, design, music etc. They are highly practically-oriented degrees, which often don't enable you to go on to a postgraduate (Graduate school) degree except the Master of Fine Arts (MFA). They are still 4 years, but instead of a widespread of subjects studied in your Freshman & Sophomore years, you'll focus from the start on your  chosen art form. There are some excellent BFAs in dance/ballet in the US, which give students the training they need to dance professionally as performers, but the really good ones are very competitive. It is unlikely you'd be offered a place as a beginner dancer.

 

College education in the US is very expensive, I know, so you might need to do some hard thinking and some sums, and come up with a game plan for the next 10 years. 

 

I think the first thing to do is find the best training you can, start going to ballet class 3 times a week, and also find a mode of cross-training which suits you (it sounds like that's weightlifting) and gradually increase your number of ballet classes so that eventually you're able to manage 5 or 6 a week. But that might take you at least a year. Ballet is quite hard on the body if your body hasn't had the training since your pliable child/early teen years. So take it slowly & don't develop bad habits in the effort to get your leg higher etc etc! Bad or sloppy technique generally leads to injury, once you start training intensively (and I'd say more than 5 classes a week for a 28 year old is intensive training).

 

You should be looking for a good school which trains children to go on into the dance industry, with a ballet focus (not the Dance Moms style "competition school"). You should look to see what their adult programme is, and are there levels through which you can progress. Then after 6 months or so, if it's feeling good, talk to your teachers there about your ambitions. I've seen quite a few young people (early 20s) start off in adult classes and progress through the levels and go on to further professional training. It can be done, but it will be slow, and you need to be open to thinking about many alternatives in terms of where you might end up.

Would the just the plain bachelor of arts make sense to get if I just wanted to teach ballet and not become a professional dancer?

[Kate_N]

That's a question a bit like "How long is a piece of string?"

 

It depends ... but generally a BFA will be a far better training for teaching. However, some BAs will give you what you need. It depends on the college, the curriculum, the quality of the teaching.

 

How much do you know about the dance world? Usually the best teachers are those with a thorough professional training, and generally some performance experience. I think you need to get to class, at a serious studio, give it a year and then reassess your life goals in response to the learning you've done, and the information you've received. Serious study of ballet is very hard work. It's not the dream of pointe shoes & tutus. Bad teaching from inexperienced teachers can injure people, so you need to get the best training you can find in your current personal circumstances, then assess your goals in the light of that training.

[glissade]

It's funny, but a lot of your concerns are also raised in a previous thread. It might be an interesting read for you .....