meadowblythe Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Interesting article on encouraging boys to take ballet and girls to play cricket. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40138653 I was really surprised at the figure given of 1.8% of RAD exams being taken by boys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Good to see that RB's Alex Campbell and BRB's Iain Mackay are actively involved in this initiative. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colman Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I'm surprised it's that high. Our school, which is amazingly high in boys by local standards, would have barely made 10% in the recent exam session, including a weird pre-primary class that is more or less randomly more boys than girls. The importing steps from sports for boys smacks of painting dumbbells pink for girls, but that's probably me being a grumpy old git. (And if you wanted to encourage more boys into ballet you'd do something about the fathers and relatives who don't want their sons doing sissy stuff that'll turn them gay ?. No idea how. Maybe lots of stories about dancers and their scantily clad wives and girlfriends in the tabloids.) 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 And from the RAD website: https://www.rad.org.uk/learn-to-dance/project-b/b-inspired?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ProjectB_BeInspired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 I think it's an interesting idea. My youngest son is sporty, and he has a great deal of respect for, and interest in the physical side of dance, even if he doesn't fully appreciate the artistic side. He did want to start ballet a while back as he had identified a variety of physical skills that his sister possesses thanks to dance, that he would also like. Ultimately, we just couldn't find time in our already packed schedule for ballet, and he didn't want to drop anything else. But had he gone, I suspect he might have proved to be quite a good dancer. In the ideal world of course there should be no need for ploys like this to attract boys into dance, or girls into more stereotypically masculine pursuits come to that. But we are where we are, and if highlighting the crossover of skills between dance and various sports encourages youngsters to try new things,then I think it's a good thing. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 5 hours ago, Colman said: I'm surprised it's that high. Our school, which is amazingly high in boys by local standards, would have barely made 10% in the recent exam session, including a weird pre-primary class that is more or less randomly more boys than girls. The importing steps from sports for boys smacks of painting dumbbells pink for girls, but that's probably me being a grumpy old git. (And if you wanted to encourage more boys into ballet you'd do something about the fathers and relatives who don't want their sons doing sissy stuff that'll turn them gay ?. No idea how. Maybe lots of stories about dancers and their scantily clad wives and girlfriends in the tabloids.) as an aside to that it;s interesting that despite the swing against tight fitting stuff sportswear wise post 'lin ford 's lunchbox' etc in the 1990s if you look at the current trends in sports it;s amazing how manyof the cross fit and gym types are wearing leggings and a close fitting tshirt / top ... never mind the slim cut of trackies now and the rise of skinny jeans for masc presenting folk ... as that is an other thing that seems to contribute to some of the issues ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amum/Cathy Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Ds had the most amazing RAD boys only weekend in Birmingham with Iain Mackay and Robert Parker in 2011. They were wonderful role models. This looks to be a very welcome fundraising and publicity drive to boost the scheme. I like the sound of the funds to help boys/men train as RAD teachers. Sadly, it doesn’t seem to be anything concrete yet, but I’ve sent ds a link to the RAD website in case he wants a plan B after university. He is so incredibly immersed in the dance/ballet scene there that I wouldn’t be surprised if he was interested. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amum/Cathy Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) I'm going to try posting a link to a Facebook video clip of the RAD boys weekend. It's a wonderful sight, seeing all these boys. Apologies if something bizarre happens. Edited June 5, 2017 by amum/Cathy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McNulty Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 How wonderful Cathy, thanks for posting this clip - Hobsons Choice of course! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 The teaching is a funny one isn't it? I suspect my DS will go down the fitness/gym route later, although teaching (non dance) is in his blood, and he would be very good at it. what are the particular challenges that male ballet teachers face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, meadowblythe said: The teaching is a funny one isn't it? I suspect my DS will go down the fitness/gym route later, although teaching (non dance) is in his blood, and he would be very good at it. what are the particular challenges that male ballet teachers face? Other than being a male in overwhelming female profession and one where the students are overwhelmingly female ... ? look at the societal prejudices against men in Primary school teaching, their near absence in EYFS , and the persisting stigma surrounding men in Nursing ( most of the men in Nursing are 'Adult' or ' Mental Health' qualified , Learning Disabilities nurses are a small proprtion of the register but their gender mix apparently somewhere in the ball park of Adult and Mental health ) there are comparitively few Masc presenting single registration Child Branch Nurses ( vs those who got it as a second registration during the big push to get Child branch Nurses into all age settings such as A+E or peri-operative ) the numbers of Men in Health Visiting and midwifery is tiny ... and that is setting where the client base is 50 /50 While it's not as a much of an issue issue for someone who has a professional reputation as a performer and is teaching at higher (skill) levels , or perhaps not an issue if someone was a QTS and teaching dance in school alongside PE or Drama; I'm not sure how well a male teacher would go down in the average 'after school activty' dance school ... given that masc presenting adult students get the occasional sideways look from ( the small number of ) the less clued up parents ... then there;s the presumption that a male teacher cannot teach the higher levels for female students becasue the traditionalists assert that boys don't (and shouldn't unless playing Bottom in Dream) do pointe ... Edited June 5, 2017 by mph 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 I do remember one of the EYB males saying he had to go en pointe to teach to advance 1/2 standard - I think - it may have been a long time ago. Isn't it interesting that females can teach males to higher levels without comment? Interestingly, I was thinking more of the practicalities of a male teaching presumably a largely female class, and the stigma had completely passed me by. I was thinking more of issues around handling (for want of a better word) girls. But that's as the parent of a dancer who has grown up in a very supportive village. I think we may be getting clues as to why so few male teachers! Other than not enough taking ballet to a reasonable level to start with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon2 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Dd had a male teacher at local small village dance school before heading to voc school. He taught the earlier RAD grades, tap and some free style ballet classes for advanced students. Dd never had a teacher go en pointe so strange a male dancer felt he had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancefanatic Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Some years ago at Dance Attic I had a male teacher - we were an advanced adult ballet class. He was amazing and also a fab pianist and accompanied us too, standing up whilst his feet/legs did the barre exercises, hands played and his eyes watched. I recall he was Chinese but sadly don't remember his name. I loved his classes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 As a pianist but not a dancer I am in total awe of this unknown teacher. I can't even manage the pedals on the organ - musicalDD and I play it as a piano duet instead .... The idea of dancing and playing the piano has just blown a few fuses in my little brain. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancefanatic Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I know!! It really struck me st the time too and I've obviously never forgotten him (just his name annoyingly). If anyone else took class on a Saturday morning in the early to mid 90's who also remembers him? He was a lovely dancer too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 3 hours ago, mph said: then there;s the presumption that a male teacher cannot teach the higher levels for female students becasue the traditionalists assert that boys don't (and shouldn't unless playing Bottom in Dream) do pointe ... Male teachers don't need to teach higher level female students how to dance en pointe - they can already do that - but male teachers can certainly take class and coach variations, and female teachers frequently teach male variations. In fact my dd was at a recent masterclass where a man taught the class, and afterwards a woman did the variation coaching (including the male one). Some of my dd's favourite teachers are male. Sex/gender has no bearing on how good the teacher is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 18 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said: Male teachers don't need to teach higher level female students how to dance en pointe - they can already do that - but male teachers can certainly take class and coach variations, and female teachers frequently teach male variations. In fact my dd was at a recent masterclass where a man taught the class, and afterwards a woman did the variation coaching (including the male one). Some of my dd's favourite teachers are male. Sex/gender has no bearing on how good the teacher is. once again pointe missed in such a topic ... we aren't talking about Masterclasses etc ( see caveat in my earlier post about those who teach at the highest levels ), Put yourself in the position of someone running the typical urban / sub urban studio of reasonable quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Ah yes, mph. You miss the point also. Try putting yourself in the position of someone whose child has been doing ballet for 15 years. They might have a different viewpoint but it is equally valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I think there is a lot of prejudice against men in what might be considered children's settings, unless in the role of sports coaching. Men are very under represented in areas such as nursery nursing, primary school teaching, health visiting and children's nursing for instance. Our village primary school is quite unusual I think in that the majority of the teachers are male, but I have heard ridiculous comments along the lines that there must be something "odd" about the (absolutely brilliant) reception teacher. Apparently some people think that it's not a proper job for a man! I think that sadly many parents would be suspicious of a male teacher in the typical local ballet school where the majority of pupils are young girls. Unfortunately, whilst it seems to be generally seen as a good thing for girls to enter traditionally male fields, the same does not yet apply in reverse. I think that's a real shame. Everyone should be free to use their talents in the best way possible, regardless of their gender. Hopefully things will change in time. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, Pups_mum said: I think there is a lot of prejudice against men in what might be considered children's settings, unless in the role of sports coaching. Men are very under represented in areas such as nursery nursing, primary school teaching, health visiting and children's nursing for instance. Our village primary school is quite unusual I think in that the majority of the teachers are male, but I have heard ridiculous comments along the lines that there must be something "odd" about the (absolutely brilliant) reception teacher. Apparently some people think that it's not a proper job for a man! I think that sadly many parents would be suspicious of a male teacher in the typical local ballet school where the majority of pupils are young girls. Unfortunately, whilst it seems to be generally seen as a good thing for girls to enter traditionally male fields, the same does not yet apply in reverse. I think that's a real shame. Everyone should be free to use their talents in the best way possible, regardless of their gender. Hopefully things will change in time. Absolutely, and the prejudice in Nursing in embedded through the physical health side of the profession , men in Nursing are accused of being favoured in promotion ( rather than not taking career breaks at points that are career critical but happen to fall at common ages to get married and produce sproglets and /or the self selection bias when applying for pre-reg ... not many men in Nursing 'fell into it' ) and ghettoising certain clinical areas ( e.g. Emergency care , ICU and Perioperative ) there is a structural bias against men in 'children's settings' related to the aspect of child care being a 'mother' thing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pups_mum Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 24 minutes ago, taxi4ballet said: Ah yes, mph. You miss the point also. Try putting yourself in the position of someone whose child has been doing ballet for 15 years. They might have a different viewpoint but it is equally valid. I think the point that mph was making (though I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong) is that the difficulties that a male teacher might experience at "grass roots" level are quite different to what might be the norm in, say a vocational school or masterclass setting. The majority of posters here have children who are serious about their dance, whether they hope to make it their career or not, and I imagine that we would all be perfectly happy with teachers of any gender, provided they were good. But we are not really representative of parents in the typical local dance school are we? I imagine that the majority of local teachers obtain most of their income from the large numbers of once or twice a week students rather than the relatively small number of "serious" students that a school may have at any given time. Whilst it's obviously not universal, I do think that given the choice, many, if not most, mothers would tend to favour a female teacher for their little girls starting ballet and would be suspicious of a man in that role. Personally I think that's illogical, but I have certainly observed this kind of attitude and I think it would make it harder for a man to establish himself as a grassroots ballet teacher than a woman of equal talent. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 My ds has had absolutely no problem when teaching in "typical urban/sub urban" situations and is very popular with parents and students alike. He also works in a school (not dance!) and is one of several male members of staff. All teachers have to be mindful of how to handle students and yes, a male Ballet teacher does need to be careful about physical corrections especially if teaching solo with no pianist or assistance. When training teachers of either sex I have always advised against avoiding being alone with any young students. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I had a male ballet teacher when I was a kid in the late 60's / early 70's (oh dear, showing my age now!) and nobody batted an eyelid. Jolly good teacher he was, too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legseleven Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 I also had a male ballet teacher as a 5/6 year old - I particularly remember him coaching us for the RAD primary exam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 12 hours ago, Pups_mum said: I think the point that mph was making (though I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong) is that the difficulties that a male teacher might experience at "grass roots" level are quite different to what might be the norm in, say a vocational school or masterclass setting. The majority of posters here have children who are serious about their dance, whether they hope to make it their career or not, and I imagine that we would all be perfectly happy with teachers of any gender, provided they were good. But we are not really representative of parents in the typical local dance school are we? I imagine that the majority of local teachers obtain most of their income from the large numbers of once or twice a week students rather than the relatively small number of "serious" students that a school may have at any given time. Whilst it's obviously not universal, I do think that given the choice, many, if not most, mothers would tend to favour a female teacher for their little girls starting ballet and would be suspicious of a man in that role. Personally I think that's illogical, but I have certainly observed this kind of attitude and I think it would make it harder for a man to establish himself as a grassroots ballet teacher than a woman of equal talent. Absolutely with regard to teachers in dance ( and men in those roles seen as 'pink collar' e.g. primary/ EYFS teaching , Nursing etc ... ) and while not about male teachers , some of the concerns about gender variant students whether adults or YP expressed by teachers are not in terms of their issues (if any) with the individuals but the reaction of the more vocal of the 'once or twice a week' parents who are quick to (try to) impose their narrow world view of 'suitable' gender roles and behaviours / presentations on others and the impact this may have on the reputation of the school /studio ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, hfbrew said: My ds has had absolutely no problem when teaching in "typical urban/sub urban" situations and is very popular with parents and students alike. He also works in a school (not dance!) and is one of several male members of staff. All teachers have to be mindful of how to handle students and yes, a male Ballet teacher does need to be careful about physical corrections especially if teaching solo with no pianist or assistance. When training teachers of either sex I have always advised against avoiding being alone with any young students. wait until the first ill founded complaint and the 'no smoke without fire ' gossip ... remember the great british public in mobs is known for hounding paediatricians from their homes ... another thing to consider is the structural discrimination that has been encouraged by the second wave feminists in social work and education policy ... such as differential supervision supervision requirements based on the gender of the adults ... e.g. requiring mixed gender groups of YP be suprvised by a team that includes at least one female ( but not the converse ) despite the fact that women are just as capable of being abusers ... Edited June 6, 2017 by mph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Having been in education for over 30 years (not just Ballet) I am well aware of the issues hence my advice to all teachers which I stated in my original post. Current safeguarding policies apply to all regardless of gender. Discussions about "second wave feminists" and "differential supervision" should be moved to not dance. And yes, we do know that all genders are capable of abuse, again a different topic. The OP asked about the particular challenges that male Ballet teachers face. So let's get back to that question having covered the rather obvious issues over safeguarding. I would agree with others that Pointe work could be challenging for a male teacher just as I, as a female teacher find virtuosity challenging! It's great that there is this initiative to encourage more male teachers. Certainly I have found it a great way to encourage brothers of my pupils when they have seen ds in action. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 12 minutes ago, hfbrew said: <snip> It's great that there is this initiative to encourage more male teachers. Certainly I have found it a great way to encourage brothers of my pupils when they have seen ds in action. which is the same approach as we have seen in STEM with the use of females in STEM jobs as role models and 'poster girls' for females in STEM. the biggest boundary to boys / men dancing is a small strip of metal or two... the threshold to the building and the threshold to the studio ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, mph said: another thing to consider is the structural discrimination that has been encouraged by the second wave feminists in social work and education policy ... such as differential supervision supervision requirements based on the gender of the adults ... e.g. requiring mixed gender groups of YP be suprvised by a team that includes at least one female ( but not the converse ) despite the fact that women are just as capable of being abusers ... Can you point me towards examples of this policy as it is not something I am aware of. I am only aware of policies that state both males and females must have an appropriate gender teacher in for example PE in schools but no bias towards female teachers. Edited June 6, 2017 by Picturesinthefirelight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 3 hours ago, mph said: and while not about male teachers , some of the concerns about gender variant students whether adults or YP expressed by teachers are not in terms of their issues (if any) with the individuals but the reaction of the more vocal of the 'once or twice a week' parents who are quick to (try to) impose their narrow world view of 'suitable' gender roles and behaviours / presentations on others and the impact this may have on the reputation of the school /studio ... I was a 'once or twice a week' parent for about ten years. I have never held a narrow world view in the way you describe. I have never come across anyone holding views or expressing an opinion remotely like that, nor have I come across it among parents of more vocational students either - and I have met and chatted to hundreds of other parents over the years, not to mention dozens of dance teachers. If anything, I've found that people in the performing arts world seem to have a far greater acceptance of sex/gender differences. Neither I nor dd are in the slightest bit bothered whether a teacher (or another student in class) is male or female, straight or gay, trans, bi, non-binary or presents themselves in whatever way they choose - they could present themselves as a duck-billed platypus for all I care. The only things that matter to us are whether the teacher is a good teacher, and that other students conduct themselves in class in a polite and respectful way. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 My husband & myself ran a successful drama/MT based school for over 10 years. At one point we had more male than female teachers. We used to actively try & recruit male teachers although of course t was always a case of the best person got the job regardless of sex as having male teachers had a positive influence on everyone. At the moment my son my son is going through a difficult time (he's been asked to leave his academic school) & two of the most positive role models who have encouraged & supported him at this difficult time are two gay blokes who run a local MT performance group. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Picturesinthefirelight said: Can you point me towards examples of this policy as it is not something I am aware of. I am only aware of policies that state both males and females must have an appropriate gender teacher in for example PE in schools but no bias towards female teachers. You will find a lot of these polices have been rewritten in the light of the equality act and a more intersectional approach to safeguarding etc rather than the paedopanic era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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