Balletmummy18 Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Ok thought long and hard about writing this post but here goes. my dc is at a top Voc ballet school and this year has had a very tough time with the ballet teacher.. Consequently he suffers now from anxiety. The School have been fantastic in their support with the exception of the ballet teacher . However, my dc now wants to leave the school.. well this week he does. My trouble is that his opinion keeps changing from screaming at me that he wants to leave to a ' not sure'! I have suggested that he hangs on until next year ( as he has passed his assessments) when he will have a different teacher and his opinion might change. However I am also worried about his mental health too!! Has anyone else faced this dilemma? He is in yr 8. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farawaydancer Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Have pm'd you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfbrew Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 This is not too dissimilar to us (10 years ago would you believe it.) My ds had tough time in year 8 with Ballet teacher, was very up and down with his moods but well supported by staff. He never actually wanted to leave but then he knew that our local schools left a lot to be desired. Got through it, was absolutely fine in year 9 and eventually had professional career. He is currently putting his experiences to good use working with post 16 vulnerable adults. I definitely think your ds should plan ahead for another year to make sure and whilst doing this look at other options. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meadowblythe Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Like hfbrew, year 8 is maybe a bad year for boys? My DS was eventually assessed out in year 9, and has never looked back ... If your son did leave, would he be looking to change vocational school or to step away from the whole ballet situation? This may affect the path you take, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 I'm really sorry to hear that Balletmummy18. How awful. It seems strange that the other staff are supportive but not the ballet teacher - what does he do that is so distressing to your son? He must be progressing well to pass his assessments so it would seem a shame to leave. I agrew with hfbrew that it would be good to try a term with a new teacher. However, I think only you can make the final decision about your son's state of mind and whether he has the strength to carry on. Health is more important than dancing. This has to be an adult'S decision not a child's. Sorry that's not much help. I feel for you so much. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 I think that year 8 is a terrible year. My dd had a complete nightmare in year 8 (we had a notice to improve letter) and we are on the verge of changing my son's school (he is in year 8 at an academic school). Have you complained at all about his treatment by the teacher? Are the school addressing these things to your satisfaction? If they are not then that may be indicative of their attitude in general. His mental health is more important but it is just a difficult age as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletmummy18 Posted May 11, 2017 Author Share Posted May 11, 2017 Hi , to give you an idea of my dc treatment from his ballet teacher: when the teacher was notified of his severe anxiety from his form tutor and the nurse/ school counsellor, the response was to take him aside and ask if he was worried about getting things wrong in class . When my son said yes ,the teachers response was ' well I don't know why you are anxious as you don't work hard enough in class to have anything to worry about'... not a helpful response ... we have not approached the teachers as it is absolutely a closed shop there. If we did , We know our dc will probably be asked to leave as he is a weaker student amongst his class. We also know that criticism bordering on bullying is a way of life in the ballet world and dc has to find a way of becoming more resilient if he's to be successful and happy. Thsnkyou so much for the messages of support -it gives us a bit of clarity and relief to know others have been through it and we are not alone ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 15 minutes ago, Balletmummy18 said: We also know that criticism bordering on bullying is a way of life in the ballet world and dc has to find a way of becoming more resilient if he's to be successful and happy. NO, No, No & no again. It's not a way of life at vocational school & shouldn't be. If it is with this teacher & nothing is being done about it then I would go ballistic. Has he thought about looking at other schools? 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waitingmum Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Does he still really want to do ballet - even a vocational school is not the only route to achieving this? As you say his mental health is the most important issue. Can he sit with you when he is next home and write out all the pros and cons of either decision - may help him make his mind up? So hard at this age. X 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballet4Boyz Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Oh no Balletmummy, that sounds really awful & actually very shocking to me - I can truly understand the dilemma your faced with. I reckon personal happiness & the health of your DS is the most important thing here as .......how can his dancing be nurtured & improve if he is anxious and so unhappy ? Hopefully - a new ballet teacher next year may have a totally different approach & your DS will feel a lot more positive. If he were my DS, I'd keep a very close eye on how he's feeling, keep talking to him & if worst comes to worst, consider leaving the school & possibly apply to another vocational school if he wants to carry on with his training . I've always told our DS that whilst he is lucky to be attending such a school & must try hard to take full advantage of such an opportunity - his happiness comes first and above everything else. There are several examples here on the forum of children being unhappy at certain schools and once changed schools - loving it & their dancing going from strength to strength . X 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farawaydancer Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 22 minutes ago, Balletmummy18 said: We also know that criticism bordering on bullying is a way of life in the ballet world and dc has to find a way of becoming more resilient if he's to be successful and happy. Thsnkyou so much for the messages of support -it gives us a bit of clarity and relief to know others have been through it and we are not alone ! As I have pointed out to staff before when they've tried to say similar things about preparing them for the industry - these are children, not professionals, and this is a school not a company. Bullying has no place in the classroom, ever. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balletmummy18 Posted May 11, 2017 Author Share Posted May 11, 2017 Thankyou very much for validating my feelings about the teacher..Waitingmum and everyone have given us plenty to think about.. roll on half term!Thankyou 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mummy twinkle toes Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Sending hugs to you and your son. It is hard to hear when dc upset. Unfortunately the ballet world does tend to attract some egotistical teachers. Consider changing schools. Dd's friend also was at top school and assessed out. They have now changed and are much happier. She feels she is now progressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted May 11, 2017 Share Posted May 11, 2017 Balletmummy18 that is shocking - it's bullying. And it shouldn't be a closed shop. If your ds has passed his assessment then he has every right to be there and should be nurtured and all the staff should be towing the line. We have asked 'difficult ' questions at vocational school and I feel they have been answered courteously with my dc's best interests taken into account. And apart from anything else you are a paying customer - although with scholarships I think it's harder to behave as a customer. I would contact other schools and discuss the situation. Your ds may progress better at a less prestigious school where he is happier. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) I think that dc's experiences are very different in each academic year and depend on which teachers are allocated to them, amongst other things of course. Year 9 may be a very different experience (hopefully much happier on the ballet front) so if your ds wants to stay at the school, you could consider reviewing the situation at Oct half term. If things are not how you want them then, it is a good time to make applications elsewhere if that's what he/you want. When dd had some second thoughts about vocational school in the early days, we did similar and agreed that we would review her feelings at a set later date. When we did, she felt differently from our original conversations and has stayed and been happy. Would your you and your ds feel better if you had further discussions about the ballet teacher or if you sit it out for half a term and see how things are in Sept/Oct? Hope you get it sorted - it's horrid when they are away from home when something like this happens. Edited May 12, 2017 by Karen SpellIng 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huddsballetmum Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Personally I would go straight to the top and express your concerns regarding the attitude of the ballet teacher. Bullying anyone is not acceptable in any walk of life, but an adult bullying a child is especially wrong. Your DC cannot be that weak a dancer if he has passed all his assessments and his mental health is so important, particularly at this age where they start to feel emotional and vulnerable due to hormones etc. I really feel for you and your DC and hope that you manage to resolve the situation. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancing unicorn Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 (edited) I tottally agree with Karen, see how it goes til October when all applications come out. Change of year, new teachers etc might make all the difference. Edited May 12, 2017 by Dancing unicorn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat09 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 My advice (as one who can look back with the benefit of hindsight) is, unless you can get absolute guarantee of support for your son in this environment and he quickly becomes genuinely happier in himself ( see it for yourself rather than talking to the school, difficult when they are away from home) then look for an alternative school where he can feel happier and more confident. Mental health challenges are real and when not recognised by a school can result in long term damage to confidence, self esteem and health. As a parent it's a terrible place to be, trying to decide what to do for the best. If you have a gut feeling follow it, it will usually prove itself to be right. Good luck with everything! 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theother51 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Huddsballetmum said: Personally I would go straight to the top and express your concerns regarding the attitude of the ballet teacher. Bullying anyone is not acceptable in any walk of life, but an adult bullying a child is especially wrong. Absolutely. This is not acceptable. Ask to see copies of their anti bullying policy. I would strongly consider putting it in writing, even if it is just an email. The school are obliged to follow certain procedures. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harwel Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 19 hours ago, Balletmummy18 said: We also know that criticism bordering on bullying is a way of life in the ballet world and dc has to find a way of becoming more resilient if he's to be successful and happy. Oh NO! Would you seriously accept that treatment of your son in a 'normal' school. I know I certainly would not. Why on earth do you think it's acceptable at a vocational school? Your sons happiness and well being is imperative and as a parent it is your responsibility to ensure he is treated well. I detest ballet teachers and schools who make parents and children feel that bad treatment is all par for the course - i trained as a ballet dancer and that attitude is extremely damaging for the child and effects them for the rest of their life. For goodness sake it's only ballet - it's not life or death. My ds is at vocational school and the training is tough and they work very hard they also have very high levels of discipline but no way are they bullied. There are other schools out there, the training is just as good and the kids are allowed to be who they are. I feel for your dilemma, but you have to take control for the sake of your son and investigate other schools right now. Plenty of schools will see kids outside of set audition times. Don't delay get in the phones this afternoon. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabitha Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 'The school' is 'the ballet teacher' and experiences from one year to the next can be dramatically different, just as children can be top of the class one year and assessed out the next (seriously, I've seen it) as they all develop at such different rates. After half term things will be focussed on end of term performances and there will lots of rehearsals and different things mixing up the timetable so may be a bit more fun, or at least different. I would genuinely try and stay with it till next year as a different teacher can make it feel like a completely different school. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flora Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 It's hard to judge surely or be totally categorical about the best thing to do from a pc remotely with little idea of the situation and not knowing the people involved- other than of course to say the right thing to do is put your child first. We were in a difficult situation at one point with our child involving a teacher and we took the approach suggested by Tabitha and decided to hang on in there. I was in two minds but the time with that teacher was coming to an end and our child was adamant that making a big fuss would also make life harder in class for the few weeks that remained. The next year everything transformed and general happiness/sense of well being totally revived with a different teacher. In your case, that may or may not be the right thing but I feel for you as they are incredibly difficult decisions to make. Having said all that I suspect you are receiving lots of responses voicing very strong feelings because there are a lot of mothers out there who know there are issues with odd teachers in a number of the UK ballet schools. I'm not a ballet teacher or a dancer but as an outsider I'm shocked by some of the things I have heard - for example, young people vomiting before class because they are quite simply petrified of the teacher or pointing to a child's legs in front of the whole class and saying this exercise will help with that bit of flab on you or saying to a teenager that bit of your body is "disgusting". And happening in more than one school. On what level is this sort of thing acceptable in any school let alone those receiving public tax payer funding? Sadly pianists do not speak out and there is an attitude that in the ballet world "you need to learn to get on with everyone". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amos73 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 56 minutes ago, Flora said: It's hard to judge surely or be totally categorical about the best thing to do from a pc remotely with little idea of the situation and not knowing the people involved- other than of course to say the right thing to do is put your child first. We were in a difficult situation at one point with our child involving a teacher and we took the approach suggested by Tabitha and decided to hang on in there. I was in two minds but the time with that teacher was coming to an end and our child was adamant that making a big fuss would also make life harder in class for the few weeks that remained. The next year everything transformed and general happiness/sense of well being totally revived with a different teacher. In your case, that may or may not be the right thing but I feel for you as they are incredibly difficult decisions to make. Having said all that I suspect you are receiving lots of responses voicing very strong feelings because there are a lot of mothers out there who know there are issues with odd teachers in a number of the UK ballet schools. I'm not a ballet teacher or a dancer but as an outsider I'm shocked by some of the things I have heard - for example, young people vomiting before class because they are quite simply petrified of the teacher or pointing to a child's legs in front of the whole class and saying this exercise will help with that bit of flab on you or saying to a teenager that bit of your body is "disgusting". And happening in more than one school. On what level is this sort of thing acceptable in any school let alone those receiving public tax payer funding? Sadly pianists do not speak out and there is an attitude that in the ballet world "you need to learn to get on with everyone". Wow. Tha is truly appalling. I actually find it hard to believe such treatment of students would be allowed these days with safe guarding and anti bullying policies. Just goes to show ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicola H Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 1 hour ago, amos73 said: Wow. Tha is truly appalling. I actually find it hard to believe such treatment of students would be allowed these days with safe guarding and anti bullying policies. Just goes to show ... Effective safeguarding relies on people being able to make disclosures and to feel supported in doing so ( see the stuff about HEE declining to continue the 'training number' of certain whistle blowing junior docs). The military got is ducks in a row over this following Deepcut , there is absolutely no need for the pine box mistakes to be repeated, any teacher who cannot adapt their style to teach effectively in a setting really needs to be considered for removal from that setting... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat09 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) withdrawn post Edited May 13, 2017 by Kat09 request Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenribbon Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 My sympathy goes out to you Balletmummy18, as dd is currently in a similar situation. She started at a vocational school last September and has had to deal with hurtful comments (including about her appearance), put downs and confidence knocking by one teacher. The trouble is that this teacher is also the principal so as for taking it any higher, we are stuck really. I wanted to remove my daughter after the Christmas break but she wanted to stay as she does enjoy the training, other teachers and the students she dances with. Since then we have met with the principal and also emailed our concerns. We were told that they weren’t going to change their style of teaching and sense of humour. The comments continued, including the day after, saying to the class that some of the students had a lot of growing up to do. My dd has now decided that she will not be returning in September after the confidence knocking persisted and is planning on auditioning for other vocational schools next year. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonty Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 (edited) I have read this post with interest, tinged with sadness. I went to a vocational school many years ago, and that kind of behaviour from teachers was very common. As a result, I know that at least two of my contemporaries went on to suffer nervous breakdowns. I am appalled that it is still going on. It was disgraceful then, and it is disgraceful now. Constructive criticism is one thing, but comments of that sort simply show that the teacher has taken a personal dislike to your child for whatever reason, and is letting it show. Sadly, a lot of people seem to go into teaching who don't actually like children at all, if my school days were anything to go by. Ballet teaching in particular enables some of these to enjoy sadistic bullying with impunity. You are doing the right thing in allowing your child to discuss the matter with you. and offering your support and encouragement, while allowing them to make their own decisions. Whatever happens, I hope they can get through this difficult patch, and move on. Edited May 13, 2017 by Fonty 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarahw Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Greenribbon I'm so sorry to hear that. Sounds like you are doing the right thing. I hope the auditions next year are successful. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 Welcome to the Forum, Greenribbon, and what an awful thing to have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabitha Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 I don't things have changed much Fonty. Sadly I think a lot of ballet teachers don't choose to be teachers but are forced into it through having no other options when their dancing careers end. Some are 'sadistic bullies' as you say, borne out of jealousy and bitterness. Like all bullies, the more you show it affects you, the worse it becomes. i also think the 'seen and not be heard', highly disciplined, autocratic culture of ballet school teaching, for girls in particular, does not lend itself to raising strong, confident, independent young women. Some (me included) continue to be intimidated by authority figures long after school. However, some of the same culture carries over to many ballet companies so one has to query whether you and your DCs are happy to aim for a career where behaviours and mindsets, treatment of staff and culture is a million years behind most 'normal' companies with modern employment practices. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 What I think some parents don't understand sometimes, especially ones who haven't danced themselves is that there might be a particular school, vocational or not where the principal was formerly a professional dancer and trained at say, RBS or somewhere else prestigious. I suppose they maybe use this fact as a selling point. The reality is that a successful professional dancer doesn't always make a successful dance teacher. The two are very different things and the qualities you might find in one don't always transfer to the other. Don't just blindly assume such and such a school "must be good" simply because the Principal was a dancer in a classical ballet company for ten years. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanthe Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 It's so sad to hear these stories - sadly it's not only in the dance world. I went to art college and found that a lot of the tutors were intensely jealous of some of the students who were winning big prizes and gaining contract offers with famous design studios. They could really make your life miserable and would find a way to pick holes in everything which could be very damaging to confidence - and this was 18-22 years olds not the young age that students are at vocational school. I know a number of people through politics, who also sit on the boards of some of the major schools in the UK and contribute a lot to their funding. They would be absolutely horrified if they thought students were suffering through staff bullying. I don't know which school is in question here, but if parents get to the point of withdrawing their child from a school where they would otherwise be happy, it's worth thinking about making the governing body and outside inspectors aware. These years should be happy and supportive - these kids are hard enough on themselves. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amos73 Posted May 13, 2017 Share Posted May 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, Lisa O`Brien said: What I think some parents don't understand sometimes, especially ones who haven't danced themselves is that there might be a particular school, vocational or not where the principal was formerly a professional dancer and trained at say, RBS or somewhere else prestigious. I suppose they maybe use this fact as a selling point. The reality is that a successful professional dancer doesn't always make a successful dance teacher. The two are very different things and the qualities you might find in one don't always transfer to the other. Don't just blindly assume such and such a school "must be good" simply because the Principal was a dancer in a classical ballet company for ten years. I would agree, my dd has already at the age of 12 said to me that there are some teachers she has had who are great classical dancers (in some instances have been principles with major companies) but have not had all of the qualities it takes to be a really great teacher. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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