The Royal Ballet: Mayerling, London, April/May 2017

[bangorballetboy]

44 minutes ago, Ian Macmillan said:

At the risk of encouraging drift - can anyone tell me whence the nickname "Bay" is derived?  I ask as, in addition to Bay Middleton here, I've just come across a First War RFC pilot who was popularly known as "Bay."  He was properly a Hubert, and I believe the chap in Mayerling was a George.  Is there an equine connection?

 

The horse that won the 2000 Guineas and the Derby in 1836 was called Bay Middleton. May be a connection?

[ninamargaret]

14 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Alison I didn't even pick up that Stephanie was heavily pregnant!! Let alone anything as subtle as loss of facial hair!!

I think the disappearance of the facial hair was what we might call a malfunction! I was sitting  very near the stage on Friday and thought, when Bonelli came on in Act1 that a beard really didn't suit him. And then in the third act I noticed he just had a moustache. Whether this was intentional, of whether there was some problem i don't know, although both McRae and Watson were bearded throughout.

[alison]

"nicknamed after his horse", it says in the programme.

 

Incidentally, I was very pleased to see in one of the reviews that, in his last few months with the company, Johannes Stepanek has been "promoted" to Bay Middleton    Just a shame it was in a cast I won't get to see.

[alison]

8 minutes ago, ninamargaret said:

I think the disappearance of the facial hair was what we might call a malfunction! I was sitting  very near the stage on Friday and thought, when Bonelli came on in Act1 that a beard really didn't suit him. And then in the third act I noticed he just had a moustache. Whether this was intentional, of whether there was some problem i don't know, although both McRae and Watson were bearded throughout.

 

I'd bet they weren't: have a look at Foteini's photos on page 1 for Watson: different facial hair in each act (unless it changes between scenes), and beardless in the final one.

 

Unless, of course, this is another example of McRae's disregard for continuity, as evidenced in La Fille Mal Gardee ...

[ninamargaret]

Thanks for this Alison, I think I noticed the presence, or absence, less with McRae or Watson as they are both light haired and I was further back in the SC. 

[LinMM]

Going back to the story a bit.... I suppose no matter how irritated one is with the dramatic plot and/or characters they are not entirely of Macmillans creation!! One has to accept the reality of what actually happened in real life in this case ......but I'd love to think that what was REALLY covered up was that Mary Vetseva shot Rudolf first and then she was immediately executed/ shot on the spot by guards etc etc .......just an idea ....but probably makes no more sense than the real event.

 

Just out of interest what WAS the result of Rudolfs suicide .....did it affect subsequent political events in any big way ....or just a private family tragedy.

[bangorballetboy]

1 minute ago, LinMM said:

 

Just out of interest what WAS the result of Rudolfs suicide .....did it affect subsequent political events in any big way ....or just a private family tragedy.

 

One might argue that it was the beginning of a chain of events that lead to both the First World War and the end of Hapsburg rule.

[LinMM]

Thanks BBB......looks like I have some reading to do!!

[Fiz]

Lin, BBB is right. After Rudolf's death, Franz Josef's nephew Franz Ferdinand was the heir presumptive. He was fairly shy and suffered from T.B. Neither Elizabeth nor the Emperor liked him and cold shouldered him. Their dislike of him deepened as he was pro more inclusivity of the different states that Austria governed. After his marriage to the noble but non royal Countess Sophie Chotek, it was obvious that their children would not inherit the throne as their parents' married morganatically. Therefore Franz Josef totally ignored him. Franz Ferdinand did not want to become emperor but the murder of an Austrian heir to the throne was made a casus belli with Serbia and led to the chain of alliances coming into play which triggered debacle of WWI.

[MAB]

It is ironic that Franz Ferdinand's wife was not considered a suitable mother for future heirs when consanguinity had wreaked such havoc on the Austrian royal family.  Ominously Franz Joseph and his wife were first cousins, seemingly oblivious to the genetic catastrophes of the Habsburg ancestors.  The few remaining European royal families now appear to eschew cousins however distant in favour of 'commoners', a wise move when you look at history. 

[Petunia]

The influential music critic Eduard Hanslick (1825 – 1904) wrote in his memoir (“Aus meinem Leben”, 1894) about his acquaintanceship to Rudolf. They first met in 1884 when Rudolf suggested Hanslick should write about the music in Vienna and Austria for a projected encyclopedia of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Rudolf himself wrote a few chapters.

 

The work took five years and the Crown Prince was present at most or all of the planning and discussion sessions with all involved. Hanslick enthusiastically describes him as kind, educated, generous and particularly (!) patient.

 

About twice or three times a year Hanslick was invited to dinner and he describes the casual  atmosphere and the interesting conversation. He’s charmed by Stephanie, her musicality, her elegant posture and her ability to remember everybody’s face and name.

 

Hanslick was shocked when he heard of the suicide in 1889.

 

(There’s nothing in his memoir about a mentally disordered Prince or lovers or addiction.)

 

Here is the said chapter (in German)

 

http://www.zeno.org/Kulturgeschichte/M/Hanslick,+Eduard/Aus+meinem+Leben/Zehntes+Buch/1.

 

[Fiz]

I am going to buy the only biography written about Stephanie. Unfortunately it is in German but it was also published in French so I hope that I won't struggle too much.

[MAB]

Of course Rudolf was related to King Ludwig II of Bavaria who was the patron of Wagner, a love a music may have been a family trait.  Poor Ludwig was designated 'mad' when in fact he was just unworldly.  The entire Wittelsbach family was somewhat eccentric and MacMillan could well have treated us to a ballet about an earlier Ludwig who got into all sorts of trouble over his infatuation with the dancer Lola Montez.  Lola also counted amongst her lovers Franz Liszt and Marius Petipa, perhaps a subject for a ballet in her own right one day.

 

I'm very keen on historical biographies, but seek out the oldest ones I can find, not just for the more elegant prose but because the further back you go the more likely the author is to have spoken to people that knew the subject or at least have first hand access to correspondence that disappears in later years.  Sadly the many local second hand bookshops in my area have all disappeared, must get myself back to Hay on Wye.

 

 

[Jan McNulty]

6 minutes ago, MAB said:

The entire Wittelsbach family was somewhat eccentric and MacMillan could well have treated us to a ballet about an earlier Ludwig who got into all sorts of trouble over his infatuation with the dancer Lola Montez.  Lola also counted amongst her lovers Franz Liszt and Marius Petipa, perhaps a subject for a ballet in her own right one day.

 

 

Now there is an idea for a new ballet!

[Ivy Lin]

18 minutes ago, MAB said:

Of course Rudolf was related to King Ludwig II of Bavaria who was the patron of Wagner, a love a music may have been a family trait.  Poor Ludwig was designated 'mad' when in fact he was just unworldly.  The entire Wittelsbach family was somewhat eccentric and MacMillan could well have treated us to a ballet about an earlier Ludwig who got into all sorts of trouble over his infatuation with the dancer Lola Montez.  Lola also counted amongst her lovers Franz Liszt and Marius Petipa, perhaps a subject for a ballet in her own right one day.

 

I'm very keen on historical biographies, but seek out the oldest ones I can find, not just for the more elegant prose but because the further back you go the more likely the author is to have spoken to people that knew the subject or at least have first hand access to correspondence that disappears in later years.  Sadly the many local second hand bookshops in my area have all disappeared, must get myself back to Hay on Wye.

 

 

 

Ludwig was designated "mad" not just because he was unworldly but because he was gay. A sad life and actually, one that could make a good ballet if ballet goers are willing to confront some very painful, uncomfortable issues.

[David]

1 hour ago, LinMM said:

One has to accept the reality of what actually happened in real life in this case ......but I'd love to think that what was REALLY covered up was that Mary Vetseva shot Rudolf first and then she was immediately executed/ shot on the spot by guards etc etc .......just an idea ....but probably makes no more sense than the real event.

Sorry LinMMM - I don't think that one would run. It says a great deal for the integrity of the medical and legal authorities at the time that they refused to collude with the Imperial wish to invent explanations, for example that it was Mary who had killed the Crown Prince and then herself. They reported that the room was sealed thus precluding any possibility of an outside agency and that Mary was carefully laid out making it clear that she had died before Rudolf.

 

[Fiz]

Mary's body was considerably more advanced in rigor mortis than Rudolf's too plus Count Hoyos had heard Rudolf moving around in the bedroom and Rudolf asked him later, through the door, what time it was. A few minutes later there was a shot and Hoyos and Rudolf's valet broke down the door. He had only just shot himself. One of the things that greatly distressed Franz Josef was that his son found it so hard to kill himself and that he had obviously murdered Mary and then hesitated.

[LinMM]

Oh yes a new ballet that would involve Petipa as a character (rather than choreographer) in his 200th anniversary year in 2018!!!

[LinMM]

Why do you think he needed to murder Mary though? Was it a personal weakness that he needed the support of a woman to carry out something he had perhaps been intending for some time?

 

it doesn't surprise me that much ( shocking as suicide is) that any friends were surprised to hear of it.

this is often the case in Life that sometimes someone gives no noticeable prior indication that they are about to commit such an act....not even to close family members or friends. 

 

I dont know enough about Rudolf to know if this is possible in his case.....certainly Macmillan shows him as a "degenerate" personality really which can often end in suicide. But the picture Petunia just gave suggests this might not have been the whole picture.

[Fiz]

It's quite possible she couldn't do it or was physically or psychologically unable to pull the trigger. Rudolf's question about joint suicide to Mitzi Caspar proves that he wanted a companion in death, possibly to steel himself to go through with it.

[David]

7 minutes ago, LinMM said:

Why do you think he needed to murder Mary though? Was it a personal weakness that he needed the support of a woman to carry out something he had perhaps been intending for some time?

 

It’s all very speculative. What appears to be beyond dispute is that his physical and mental health had deteriorated alarmingly, primarily because of his sexual excesses and their consequences, so much so that Stephanie sought an audience with the Emperor to express her concern. He was in great pain, increasingly resorting to drugs, mainly injections of morphia supplemented with ether and alcohol, and he was morbidly depressed, preoccupied with thoughts of death and afraid, both of the hideous diseased future that lay ahead, and of dying alone. It was Mary’s ill fortune to be the chosen one in his solution to that particular worry!

[Two Pigeons]

Ill fortune or not Mary Vetsara's name is known throughout Europe because she died in a likely suicide pact over 120 years ago.  One has to wonder if she would not have chosen that type of fame.  Without it she would have been unknown to history, just disappearing into historical obscurity.

[Beryl H]

2 hours ago, Fiz said:

Lin, BBB is right. After Rudolf's death, Franz Josef's nephew Franz Ferdinand was the heir presumptive. He was fairly shy and suffered from T.B. Neither Elizabeth nor the Emperor liked him and cold shouldered him. Their dislike of him deepened as he was pro more inclusivity of the different states that Austria governed. After his marriage to the noble but non royal Countess Sophie Chotek, it was obvious that their children would not inherit the throne as their parents' married morganatically. Therefore Franz Josef totally ignored him. Franz Ferdinand did not want to become emperor but the murder of an Austrian heir to the throne was made a casus belli with Serbia and led to the chain of alliances coming into play which triggered debacle of WWI.

 

I have read that one of Franz Ferdinand's and Sophie's few friends in the Austrian court was Princess Stephanie, I've always thought that if Rudolf hadn't shot himself he and Stephanie would probably have been sent to Sarajevo on that fateful day.

[David]

12 minutes ago, Two Pigeons said:

Ill fortune or not Mary Vetsara's name is known throughout Europe because she died in a likely suicide pact over 120 years ago.  One has to wonder if she would not have chosen that type of fame.  Without it she would have been unknown to history, just disappearing into historical obscurity.

 

I think it's easy to forget that Mary was a teenager, presumably sophisticated in many ways because of her station in life but, as her letters show, quite naive - she said for example that her final wish was to be buried with her Rudolph. That wasn't going to happen!

 

She told her chambermaid on Jan 13th 1889 "I no longer  belong to myself alone, but only to him. From now on I must do everything he asks of me."

 

Rudolph was nearly twice her age, very experienced, indeed had had an affair with her mother when she was only five years old. We talk about her as his partner in death etc but I see her very much as a victim. 

[ninamargaret]

For anyone interested in the music, Radio 3 has Liszt as composer of the week - every day at noon, repeated easy evening. Listened today, and it made me realise what an amazing job John Lanchbery did.  Must admit it's Mayerling that prodded me into listening to Liszt's music.

[bangorballetboy]

1 minute ago, David said:

 

I think it's easy to forget that Mary was a teenager, presumably sophisticated in many ways because of her station in life but, as her letters show, quite naive - she said for example that her final wish was to be buried with her Rudolph. That wasn't going to happen!

 

She told her chambermaid on Jan 13th 1889 "I no longer  belong to myself alone, but only to him. From now on I must do everything he asks of me."

 

Rudolph was nearly twice her age, very experienced, indeed had had an affair with her mother when she was only five years old. We talk about her as his partner in death etc but I see her very much as a victim. 

 

I assume you mean Rudolf had an affair with Helene Vetsera when Mary was only five years old...

[David]

2 minutes ago, bangorballetboy said:

 

I assume you mean Rudolf had an affair with Helene Vetsera when Mary was only five years old...

 

Yep - together, my grammar and I stand corrected!

[Fiz]

Beryl H, the truly sad thing about Sarajevo was the fact that neither Franz Ferdinand nor Sophie had to be there. He went because he was Commander in Chief of their regiment (so Rudolf and Stephanie would not have been involved). One of the many petty indignities that the rule bound Austrian court inflicted on Franz Ferdinand and Sophie was a refusal to ever let them sit together at banquets or walk together in processions. It didn't seem to bother Sophie particularly but it infuriated her husband. The reason they went to Sarajevo was because it was their wedding anniversary and as CIC, Rudolf could have his wife accompany him properly and be treated as his wife rather than his inferior. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Fiz
To make a point clearer.

[Sim]

I think you mean FF, not Rudolf, Fiz?!

[Two Pigeons]

I have often wondered what happened to Mitzi Caster,  not least as I believe Rudolf willed her all  his possessions.  I have been unsuccessful in this but if anyone can enlighten me I would be very appreciative.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Two Pigeons

[Sim]

1 hour ago, Ivy Lin said:

 

Ludwig was designated "mad" not just because he was unworldly but because he was gay. A sad life and actually, one that could make a good ballet if ballet goers are willing to confront some very painful, uncomfortable issues.

Many ballet goers are willing to do this:  just about every time we see a MacMillan piece, as in Mayerling,  this is just what we are doing!  Remembering also the recent sold-out shows by Crystal Pite, dealing with refugees, child death, etc. etc. 

[penelopesimpson]

You're not the only one, NinaMargaret.  It was Mayerling that made me really get into Liszt

[David]

54 minutes ago, ninamargaret said:

For anyone interested in the music, Radio 3 has Liszt as composer of the week .... it made me realise what an amazing job John Lanchbery did. 

 

I so agree - particularly in his use of the Faust Symphony in the final stages. Liszt was a contemporary of and knew the Empress Elizabeth - in fact I'm sure I read somewhere he wrote a piece for her? I've been meaning to check if it was the song that the actress Katharina Schratt sings in the ballet but haven't got round to it. Does anybody know please?