Jump to content

The Power of Persuasion!


ArucariaBallerina

Recommended Posts

HOW DO YOU CONVINCE PARENTS?!

I come from a very non-dancing family... They believe that I should only have one ballet lesson a week, and I can go to RBS when I'm 16 in 2 years and become a Darcey Bussell? ???? anyway, stresses are high at the moment because we are waiting on RBS results and hopefully auditioning for a couple of Associate programmes. Mother put her foot down on applying for any other full time ballet schools as she has a bit of a worryingly passionate relationship towards my academic school (she emails my head of year once a week to tell her how wonderful the school is ????). I suppose that's alright, as there aren't many spaces available anyway.

 

Anyway, to the pointe. I am trying to construct a good and convincing argument for my parents to let me attend another recreational dance school for extra ballet classes, as present one only has 2 (one at my level, and one 2 levels below me...) a week. I will work hard to try to pay for these classes, but at the moment parents say no, I can either choose one school or the other (although it would be more expensive that way....). Any suggestions for persuading them? I'm trying not to pester them too much, I just crave more ballet than 1h 30 a week :( and the schools have links anyway.

 

Sorry for the length of this, I'm just worried that I won't have enough ballet technique, as I onl,y started ballet 2 years ago. I just love it so much!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can you say that only one class a week is a false economy, as you can't make progress with only one class a week. Can you compare it to training for a sport, or learning a musical instrument? that in order to get fit you need to do run  a bit each day; in order to become a fluent musician, you need to practice scales each day.

 

It's called muscle memory or proprioception.

 

An academic comparison: To learn a language, you learn more with frequent, regular daily practice. You learn even more quickly if you're immersed in that language (vocational school). 

 

Brains can mature & develop your whole life: your body is only able to do the learning it needs to do while you are young.

 

To show your parents that you are serious about the need for regular practice, can you devise your own ballet training regime, so you do some at-home practice daily? I mean, don't make it up yourself! Ask your teacher for some simple exercises you can do each day for around 45 minutes, which will strengthen and develop your ballet muscle memory. Such as: 3 x sets of 10 rises in parallel. On both feet, then a set on each single leg (do them as if facing the barre: hang on to a convenient table or the like). Floor exercises with a Pilates ball; foot strengthening exercises. Things you can do that maybe aren't a full class, but help you develop & strengthen in reparation for class.

 

Show them your determination, even in the face of 1 class a week.

 

The teachers who post here may have experience in reassuring parents that it isn't necessarily an "either/or" situation for young people like you.

Edited by Kate_N
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Kate_N, I will try again tomorrow! I do practise every single day for up to 2 hours at my own barre at home (family bought me a ballet barre for a Christmas present strange,y and happily enough!) - strengthening and stretching work, barre, pointe and i work on different bits of centre too., and have been doing for the past year. im in grade 5 IDTA Moomin. Yes my parents do unfortunately, I got into a top academic school before I started ballet and they never got good grades when they were young... So they want me to be a child who gets all A*s ... 'I can try to become a ballerina when I am 16' ...

Edited by ArucariaBallerina
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they want you to choose one school would the other school alone provide more lessons? When you applied to rbs did you & your parents discuss it with your teacher first? What did they say would be the best route? Are you rellying on parents to get you to extra classes/ associates etc?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well you do have my sympathy here....once parents have decided that they want you to do well at school it doesn't usually stop at GCSE .....at sixteen. They will want you to do A levels and go to Uni etc etc.

 

I say this because you said they are happy for you to try to be a ballerina at sixteen .....as if this is where academic education cuts off!!

 

So you are hoping if all comes off to try to audition for the RBS upper school.

The problem I see is that even girls who have been at RBS since eleven don't always get into Upper School and they have been doing a lot of dancing!!

To have any chance at all you will have to increase your ballet hours before the age of sixteen that's for sure.

Keenness and enthusiasm can go a long way but the competition from all over the world is huge to get into RBS upper school.

 

What does your ballet teacher think.....can she help to persuade your parents that you need more classes.

It is extremely difficult I know if your parents don't have much knowledge of what it takes to be a dancer they probably don't realise the amount of training required which you cannot just suddenly switch on at sixteen!!

Is there any option at your school to take some sort of Dance option ...as a subject ....which would at least keep you a bit in touch if your parents are not keen for any more after school ballet etc.

Wishing you lots of luck

Linda

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you again everybody. Moomin yes, choosing the other school would provide more lessons, but is further away and my parents would have to drive me to classes/associates. My current school actually has a very good teacher, but of course only 2 lessons a week and tends to favouritise (girls who aren't favourited tend to not have proper alignment!) my teacher put RBS forward for me to try, as she said I had the right physique and passion. My parents automatically assume I'd get in, but after seeing the girls at the audition, have decided that I need a life outside dancing. They say more than 2 classes a week would be too much for a 14 year old, and want me to try other hobbies... LinMM there is no formal dancing at school but I am on the dance team, which teaches contemporary dances etc. I will talk to my dance teacher, I hope she understands!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you need to get your ballet teacher involved in explaining to your parents what it takes to make it into a full time vocational training programme at 16. At your age, even 2 classes a week is not really enough to get you to the standard required for somewhere like the Royal Ballet School. Has your teacher got experience in preparing students for vocational school? Has he or she got other students on associate schemes?

 

If you're successful in being accepted to the associate scheme, your associates teacher can help with speaking to your parents. If you're not accepted to the associate programme, see if there are other associate schemes you can audition for.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

invisiblecircus, my dance teacher has got students into JAs at Elmhurst and RBS, and a few into full time places like Hammond and many musical theatre places. I don't know quite what to say, as mum now thinks that more than 2 a week is excessive, that it will negativeky Impact me in some way :( my dance teacher is really stressed at the moment as show is in 2 weeks, so any advice on what to say to her afterwards (I will probably put it in a text) would be greatly appreciated!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is quite a sad story I think, unfortunately many talented children will not get the chance to follow their passion because parents do not want them to. It is one of those 'additional' requirements that are vital to success - parental support. 2 ballet classes are in no way enough at 14 and with only 2 years dancing behind you to make it to RBS at 16. Only one girl last year got accepted to RBS upper school who was not in full time training and she was so advanced she was in the prix de Lausanne competition. I fully sympathise with your situation but a reality check needs to be in place here for all concerned and I think your parents, dance teacher and yourself need to sit down and have a very frank discussion about what is possible, what is required and that other schools apart from RBS should be considered. Schools that will he interested in nurturing raw talent and not expecting an almost perfect article to walk through the doors.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Harwel's advice is excellent. It is tough, but is there a realistic chance that a vocational school (not just the RBS) will offer you a place? What Associates schemes have you auditioned for, or been accepted to? What other indicators of 'raw' or trained ability have you tried to assess? 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

An excellent post, Harwel. I agree that you have to get your parents on board with this. It's not possible to do it alone. You need their support in terms of finances, transportation and time. It's only in places like Cuba and Russia that the State / the school will underwrite the training and living expenses in their entirety. Actually, yesterday I got chatting to a dance teacher working in a school who said that she had got a (female) student who had only taken up dance in year 9 (the start of the CGSE course) into Laban so it is possible to start late. However, Laban is a contemporary school and I do think that it's much harder to start late in ballet. You hear of the odd dancer who started at 12 but they trained intensively from when they did start and they often had a background in other forms of dance or gymnastics. More boys than girls seem to be able to start late for some reason.

 

As Harwel has said, you need to have a frank 'round table' discussion between you, your parents and your teacher. You may have to widen your aspirations. There is a world of dance beyond the Royal Balket School and, whilst places in contemporary schools are still very competitive, there is more opportunity to enter these schools at 18 or older which would give you more time to work on your technique and artistry.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you everybody, I will organise a chat between my teacher, parents and I! I just love ballet so so much... I need and want it... And although I know you can start later in contemporary ballet, my heart is in classical. I'm auditioning for other Associates schemes later in the year. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle at the moment. Mum says I can have one more ballet class a week if I cancel my tap and modern classes. I don't think she will carry that out though... Sigh. My parents spend £20 per half hour on my piano lessons with a county-famous pianist, but I wouldn't say i am passionate about piano. It's so frustrating!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes parents aren't on board for a good reason- finances, time, realities. I think your best bet is to try and compromise. The other school may not be your first choice but if you could spend 2 or 3 nights there doing a 'block' of lessons it may be much more convenient and economical and you could commit to academic work the other evenings. My kids have a limit on activities, I also say that they have to give up something to add another lesson. Yes part of this is to see how serious they are but it's also because I don't have an inexhaustible supply of money, time and energy!

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reassurance is also an important part of the discussion. If your parents are concerned that more dance will have a detrimental effect on your school work, you need to show them how you would fit it all in. You are right to consider what other activities you could give up and definitely agree that tap can go. My own dd is taking 11 GCSEs this year and does 15-20 hours a week of dance. She makes it work because she gets up at 6.30am every day to do her stretching exercises and fit in some homework before school. She also starts studying as soon as she gets home at 4pm. She does no other activities apart from dance (her choice). It can be done (one of her friends does a similar amount of dance and got 11 A* last year) but there is a price to pay - no social life! You could also offer to reduce the amount of time spent dancing in the event that your grades start to drop. I'm sure that won't happen if you are organised.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was struck by something you wrote in an earlier post....that before you went to the audition your parents had ASSUMED you would get so obviously thought you had some talent but when they saw all the other girls they decided that maybe ballet should not be a big part of your life.....looking at the reality of it all.

 

Some where here I think is the crux of the matter. They see you as doing well at school and if you suddenly do lots of extra ballet your schoolwork may suffer and if you don't succeed in getting into training anyway you may also not end up succeeding so well academically either.

I think they ARE looking out for you but definitely do not understand the passion that can get hold with ballet and it seems unfortunately for yourself you have come to this passion rather late.....especially as a female dancer( many men have succeeded in a career with not getting serious until about 14)

I feel for you with the piano lessons.... as these require practice as well ....another section of time booked up....but unless you were considering a career in music I would say there is room for a bit of bargaining here.....or are they insisting on getting to a certain standard or exam level before allowing you to give up! Most parents are not that keen to go on paying out for things that their children no longer have an interest in if they have given it a good go.

 

It is so difficult this ......perhaps if it was two years back ....before GCSE choices started coming into view things may have been a bit easier for them to accept.

But they are allowing you to go for these associate classes for example so want you to spend some time on your passion but not the amount you would need to truely succeed.

I agree with others who have said perhaps if between your ballet teacher and your parents you can see what else may be feasible .....like trying for other schools who have a very good reputation ( and I sense this is also what your parents are looking for)

But the RBS is notoriously difficult and most who get in there have been practising ballet passionately since six or seven years old!! Though I can see your parents would have been attracted by their reputation ....for you.

 

I can see it is pointless....just at the moment....to point out Contemporary schools etc ...like the Rambert....but where you would also be doing a lot of ballet...as it doesn't look like you are that keen on contemporary dance...but this can change!!

 

I hope you do manage to get your teacher to talk to your parents.....best not just before a show or lots of exams coming up though!!

But first ....if you feel you can .....talk through with the teacher first on your own what you want to realistically get out of the meeting.

 

Linda.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with what other posters have said about getting your parents and teacher together for a discussion. Also, a couple of things to add:

 

Places such as London Studio Centre and Ballet West take students at 18 so you could still do A-levels alongside ballet classes before committing to full-time.

 

You can do A-levels/ a degree/ more GCSEs at any age, but you can only dance while you are young. There is no reason why you couldn't focus on your dancing now and still get a good education once you are finished performing etc. 

 

It took until I was 19 to persuade my parents that dance was what I wanted to do ("but you are so clever why do you want to waste your brain", "music would be better", "but what if you get injured" etc) by which time it was too late to consider a performing career, but I found my passion was in teaching anyway and did a degree in Ballet Education (thus keeping my family happy with a BA in the bargain!). I hope it all works out for you xx

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you very much everybody, I need to find q balance between being single minded and realistic! My mum now says that if I can

Rove to her that my grades stay up, homework gets done and still have friends I can do the extra classes! Yay! Still waiting or RBS senior associates/WL results. I will try again about voc school. I would hate to wait until I'm 18, though it is possible.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well that's some good news for you!!

 

Certainly don't write off the London Studio Centre and Ballet West for starting at 18 .....in the end if you are still keen this might suit you very well as a late starter.

I certainly know personally people from the London Studio who have managed to get professional contracts not always strictly classical ballet though I know this is what you are keen on at the mo.

 

However you may feel differently in a few years time.

So,if not successful in getting into any vocational training at 16 ....you can really keep academics and dance training going for a little longer.

I believe the Rambert also take students at a later age.

As a Friend of the Rambert I've seen the company in their daily Ballet class and even though the company is not strictly classical when performing ...... they are all at a pretty good level with their ballet!!

You could also check Northern Ballet .....am not sure if they take students a bit older as well.

Good luck with your ballet and school work......and as things are today doing well at school is really more and more important so can see where mum and dad are coming from....

Keep us up to date with what happens with Associates etc

 

Linda

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could also check Northern Ballet .....am not sure if they take students a bit older as well.

 

 

I assume you mean the Northern Ballet School in Manchester Linda.  The Northern Ballet Academy in Leeds is currently only up to the age of 16 although they also have the pre-professional programme for upper school graduates.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to add that we had a very strict Academic attainment criteria for our DD that she had to reach for us to allow her to follow full time vocational training.  This has meant that she has stayed at school until the end of 6th year (Scottish system) to achieve an impressive record of exam results (proud parent comment there!).  This also means that she will be 17 before she leaves school.  As many people on here will know she has been successful in securing a place to move to Ballet West in September - which was her first choice. 

 

DD always understood that whilst we were happy to support her in her passion for Ballet, she knew that she had to achieve her academic best to have 'in her back pocket' for whatever the unknown future might throw at her. 

 

So I suppose what I'm saying is please don't feel your parents are putting barriers in your way - they are looking out for your best interests in the long run - just continue to prove to them that you'll make sure your academic studies don't suffer as a result of extra classes and be realistic to yourself in the workload you take on to do this.

 

Good luck

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been the parent that needs to be persuaded, and my husband is the parent that REALLY needed to be persuaded and still has misgivings. Some of what I am going to say may seem harsh, but I don't intend it to be discouraging - just realistic.

As others have said, your parents are almost certainly not being difficult for their own sakes, they want what's best for your future. And in all honesty they are right to be concerned as the performing arts is a tough and precarious world to enter. If you are to persuade them to support you then you are going to need to show them that you are aware of the harsh realities and that you have workable alternative plans if things don't turn out as you'd hoped.

There is nothing wrong in aiming high - in fact I think everyone should do - but you need to be aware that the chances of gaining a place at the RBS or similar school is very very small and consider other options. Simply looking at the numbers of applicants vs the number of places available you can see that the vast majority of would-be students will be disappointed. And particularly at upper school auditions you aren't just competing with the best in the country for those coveted few places, but with the best in the world.Most of them will have been in full time training since 11, or in the case of the overseas students,maybe even younger.And those that haven't will almost certainly have been putting in many, many hours in their local studios, plus associates, summer schools etc since they were young. Then if getting into a school isn't hard enough, remember that only a small proportion of those who gain places will go on have successful careers in classical companies and a really tiny number will become famous ballerinas. It's not impossible for late starters to "make it" but realistically, it is rare. I'm not saying you should necessarily give up those dreams at this stage -obviously you don't try you will never know - but think about other options too, both within and outside the dance world. There are lots of transferable skills and benefits to dance even if you never get onto the stage at the ROH!

I'd hazard a guess that your parents want to protect you and in particular don't want you to neglect other talents that you have in chasing what probably looks like an impossible dream to them. They will be thinking about the worst case scenario - it's what we parents do! You need to work with them to figure out a plan where even the worst likely outcome is still acceptable to you all.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really endorse what Pups_Mum says. At the moment you are driven by a dream and a passion. And I think that being brought up in the theatre (as I was) is a wonderful childhood - as everyone says, you learn all sorts of wonderful skills. When my peers were simply going home & watching television, my siblings and I were always at class or rehearsal. The theatre and performing (dance, drama, singing) gave us all really productive recreational time. Although I'm not a performer, my childhood & teenage years, and university years spent in the theatre & dance studio - my life beyond my work! - have enabled me to do the work I do now. And earn an excellent living  ;)

 

But ...

 

I have 3 successful, earned-their-living-at-it performers in my family, including 2 ballet professionals - although 1 dancer quickly moved from dance to acting to earn a living - and I've seen up close just how very talented you need to be. And even then, there are no guarantees. The soloist dancer in my family started relatively late, but went to the national training school (one of the best in the world) because of amazing feet, long limbs, small head - having the typical ballet body, and almost daily training from the age of 12. 

 

So your parents may be trying to protect you by ensuring that you have an all-round education. Personally, I think that if you do have a skerrick of the fundamentals, then your brain can wait, your body won't. And a good performing arts education will be a good all round arts & humanities education. But I think it's really important that you have a serious talk with your ballet teacher, and you use your own judgement when you're at auditions and so on. At 14, auditioners will still be looking at potential, but by 16, they'll be wanting to see good training and its application. The foundation of all your wonderings is: Do you have the basic raw materials? That is the tough harsh question.

 

Your frustration is obviously that your parents don't seem to see that in order to be at the highest level (they seem to want you to achieve at the highest level in everything) you need more training. They seem quite invested in "the best" or status as a mark of quality or achievement - your comment about your expensive piano teacher suggests it's important to them for you to be training in the "best" way. So can you follow this reasoning through, and suggest to them that limiting your training is a "false economy." So in order to give you a chance to prove yourself, extra classes might be the deal?

 

However, if you read the posts of another member here, Anonymous_Dancer, who is studying a dance degree after 18, you'll see that there are all sorts of possibilities beyond the RBS, and beyond just ballet.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love this forum. So much experience and great to have some varied, balanced views. Hope it's all helpful for the OP. On a slightly tangential point, the costs of your piano lessons, extraordinary though they seem, are completely standard where we live. As a parent of two DDs I often ask myself if their half an hour of music a week respectively, with barely any time for practise in between each week, can really be justified. Then I think ahead to their future and the breadth of opportunity that having some knowledge of music alongside dance might offer, and we persevere! Good luck; it looks like you've found a good starting point ????

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was about to say the same MAK - I wouldn't call £20 per  half an hour expensive for a one to one music lesson. It's pretty standard in my experience.

Recommended minimum rates are set by the Musicians Union - £32 per hour in 2016. I don't think that's unreasonable for 1:2:1 coaching by an experienced professional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My fortnightly singing lessons are £45 an hour which is considered extremely reasonable for London.  My teacher was charging £40 an hour when she was able to teach out of a private home, but now she has moved to studios she also has to cover room hire.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that this might sound a little harsh but I do think you need a healthy dose of realism injected into your dreams.  There are very few who get into RBS and many of them have been training since a young age.  It's also very tough to get into the other vocational schools as I am sure you will see if you look at other threads on this site.  It's very hard to get a dance contract, whatever dance type, but especially classical ballet.

That's the tough bit ....  Your parents love you and want the best for you, and probably see the challenges you will face in becoming a dancer.  However it is your dream and we should encourage our children's dreams.  Maybe the best thing is to look at all forms of dance, not just classical ballet as you may be surprised in what you discover.  My dd was set on being a classical ballerina until she was introduced to contemporary whilst studying at York Scholars (a classical associate programme).  She fell in love with the style and the freedom, at about your age, and is now in her 3rd Year on the CAT programme at NSCD.  Admittedly she had been training in ballet from the age of 3 and she had also come to the realisation that classical ballet careers are few and far between.

 

Whatever happens I wish you all the best of luck in whatever you choose to do.  

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you considered an online course?

 

There's an Australian one called Brunswick School of Dance. I have had a look at their promo video before and it looks good. Also it's an RAD syllabus, which is great for technique (we were advised to send DD to an RAD school by a friend who trained with RBS years ago, as that was the same advice her parents were given when she was a child-I'm not knocking other syllabi, just giving my own experience :-)).

 

I don't know anything about the cost of this Australian one, by the way, but as you have a barre at home, and presumably a little bit of space, this might suit you. You won't need to factor in travel time, which should take less time out from academic study, and keep Mum and Dad happy. 

 

Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...