The Royal Ballet: The Sleeping Beauty performances, 2016-2017

[taxi4ballet]

Not having seen Ms Osipova I just thought TTP meant the same as the way I always describe John Wayne's performances - that he is John Wayne in every role.  Sometimes this works (e.g. The Searchers - one of my most favourite films) and sometimes it doesn't.

I was thinking along the same lines. The actors Jim Carrey and David Jason could also possibly fall into this category.

[LinMM]

I really do need to get up in my loft and try and find my old ROH programmes from the 70's ( a tad daunting if you could see our loft....things definitely go bump in the night up there) because I'm pretty sure the Lilac Fairy was always danced by a principal then but can't be absolutely sure.....certainly by dancers who went on to be Pricipals ....but perhaps it was just before being made Pricipal? Rather a long time ago now. Also I used to collect autographs in those days so be nice to see whose I did get and signed the programme apart from Nureyev and Fonteyn. The night I went to get Makarova's I'd lost my programme so she signed my book "The Rocks Remain " by Gavin Maxwell instead....sorry off topic!!

[LinMM]

Billboyd do I detect just a hint of humour there!!

[Jamesrhblack]

I really do need to get up in my loft and try and find my old ROH programmes from the 70's ( a tad daunting if you could see our loft....things definitely go bump in the night up there) because I'm pretty sure the Lilac Fairy was always danced by a principal then but can't be absolutely sure.....certainly by dancers who went on to be Pricipals ....but perhaps it was just before being made Pricipal? Rather a long time ago now. Also I used to collect autographs in those days so be nice to see whose I did get and signed the programme apart from Nureyev and Fonteyn. The night I went to get Makarova's I'd lost my programme so she signed my book "The Rocks Remain " by Gavin Maxwell instead....sorry off topic!!

Several principals danced it in those days: Bergsma, Derman, Mason, Porter, as well as very strong soloists such as Deirdre Eyden and Pippa Wylde who also danced Odette / Odile (as did those four principal ladies). To be honest, it was with Porter that I first noticed that the solo wasn't exactly easy but she had such beauty and charisma that for several seasons one overlooked the inherent weaknesses....

Edited March 8, 2017 by Jamesrhblack

[Vanartus]

Ultra-quick comment- star quality is a difficult thing. Sometimes a curse. My fave dancers - Seymour, Ferri, Osipova, Rojo, Cojacaru, Guillem all have/had it. In a sense they carry the burden of this quality in every role - even when they transcend it, it's always there - that's why there's the thrill...

[LinMM]

Bergsma and Derman definitely stick in my mind so they must have been good!!

[Vanartus]

Yes Derman was good - in fact a good Queen of the Wilis is generally a good Lilac Fairy!

[LinMM]

Which is interesting as in these two roles the dancers are projecting almost diametrically opposed feelings

[Mary]

I'm spending the evening watching Lilac Fairies on youtube ( someone has to do it) and the amount of variation is striking indeed. In choreography as well as performance style and technique.

 

I am beginning to think the RB should change the steps,  because it is more important that the LF keeps her authority as representing the power of goodness triumphant, and ' commands the stage' - is that what Floss said?- that's it exactly-  by not muffing, fluffing, stumbling etc, than that particular steps are danced- isn't it?

[Vanartus]

Which is interesting as in these two roles the dancers are projecting almost diametrically opposed feelings

...I suppose they're both control freaks! ????????????

[penelopesimpson]

Not having seen Ms Osipova I just thought TTP meant the same as the way I always describe John Wayne's performances - that he is John Wayne in every role.  Sometimes this works (e.g. The Searchers - one of my most favourite films) and sometimes it doesn't.

The big difference being that John Wayne couldn't act whereas Natalia can dance!

[Tony Newcombe]

Some postings would seem to suggest that both are being themselves in performance

[LinMM]

Well let's say a sort of chanelling of oneself through the role! Which is why it's so great to see different artists interpretations ....as necessarily they have to bring something of themselves to the role.

[Jan McNulty]

The big difference being that John Wayne couldn't act whereas Natalia can dance!

 

 

I don't doubt that Ms Osipova can dance - having seen her Rubies!  However, can she subsume herself into any role?  Possibly in the eyes of some people and possibly not in the eyes of others.

[Amelia]

The big difference being that John Wayne couldn't act whereas Natalia can dance!

And, Good heavens, she can act too!

[Jan McNulty]

And, Good heavens, she can act too!

 

 

Acting is in the eye of the beholder.

 

I saw a Northern Ballet performance some years ago that I thought was one of the most emotional and heartfelt performances I had ever seen; it still lives with me.  Luke Jennings was at the same performance and found it bland...

[billboyd]

Natalia Osipova is a terrific actor possessing great  charisma and stage presence. Her great roles include Giselle, Kitri, Jeanne, Manon, Petrovna, Tatiana and more.She has a wide range of different characters.

When she first danced Sir Peter Wright's Giselle he said, 'Natalia Osipova is Giselle'

 

If it's good enough for Sir Peter... 

[LinMM]

One of my top three for Giselle!

[Sim]

I agree with Bill's post above. I have seen Osipova in all those roles and loved her interpretation of all of them. Her Giselle with the Bolshoi especially and her Petrovna were sublime. I remember being reduced to tears at the end of her performance in Month. I also really liked her Manon. For me, these are the kinds of roles in which she excels. I'm just not so taken with the more 'classical' roles that she dances...but then no dancer can do everything to the same high standard. But as Janet says above, it's all about personal perception; there is no right or wrong and others think the opposite. All part of ballet life's rich tapestry, I guess!

[GTL]

....I was also going to say that the RB's Lilac Fairy variation doesn't contain Italian fouettés.  Italian fouettés are those found in Gamzatti's variation and that of the Queen of the Dryads in Don Q (a developé followed by a turn with a transition of the leg into attitude, though it can also end in arabesque).  The Lilac Fairy simply does a fouetté whilst turning. 

Well, that explains why I keep thinking they're getting it wrong! ????

[penelopesimpson]

I also thought her Giselle was sublime

[Fonty]

I'm spending the evening watching Lilac Fairies on youtube ( someone has to do it) and the amount of variation is striking indeed. In choreography as well as performance style and technique.

 

I am beginning to think the RB should change the steps,  because it is more important that the LF keeps her authority as representing the power of goodness triumphant, and ' commands the stage' - is that what Floss said?- that's it exactly-  by not muffing, fluffing, stumbling etc, than that particular steps are danced- isn't it?

 

I've also seen a good few Lilac Fairies on youtube, although a lot of them are Russian, so I would expect the choreography to be different for some of those.  

 

But I would expect the RB do be doing the choreography that has been established for 50 years, and to be doing it well.  The fact that the current crop are struggling, whereas those of yesterday produced great performances, seems to me to suggest that something somewhere is lacking in their training.  I can't believe it is lack of talent.  I remember we routinely had lessons based on the Cecchetti method when I was studying ballet, but I believe this is no longer the case?  Is this part of the problem?   I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong!   

[Jamesrhblack]

Just watched Dame Beryl Grey as the Lilac Fairy on the YouTube clip from 1955 and she sails through without a hint of difficulty, gracious, glamorous, elegant and with beautiful empanelment. So, it can be done (or could be)....

[Mary]

I just watched Dame Beryl-: she is marvellous, yes, it can be done.   So very light on her feet and having that very correct air of being suspended from above by invisible strings.  It  is just a piece of cake for her.

 

A fine dancer and a fine lady.

[James]

I've watched Beryl Grey and Lucette Aldous (in the 1959 BBC film). Both look consummate. The problems with the variation clearly have nothing to with height, as these two dancers were at opposite ends of the scale.

I wonder why the "western" version of the variation differs from the Russian one? Does anyone know if the RB version is derived from the 1921 Diaghilev production? I believe that Bronislava Nijinska danced the Lilac Fairy in that production, so perhaps she changed the choreography for that variation - as well as making the other changes which we know found their way into the RB text.

 

James

[Geoff]

I wonder why the "western" version of the variation differs from the Russian one? Does anyone know if the RB version is derived from the 1921 Diaghilev production? I believe that Bronislava Nijinska danced the Lilac Fairy in that production, so perhaps she changed the choreography for that variation

The various versions have a long history, in fact, so far as we know, this goes right back to Petipa. It seems there were two Petipa versions of the Lilac Fairy variation, an easier one (marked as being for his daughter Marie, a favourite with the public) and a harder one. Now over to those who really know all this!

Edited March 9, 2017 by Geoff

[FLOSS]

There are two versions of the Lilac Fairy's variation in the Stepanov notation of the Sleeping Beauty which Nicolai Sergeyev brought with him when he left Russia after the Revolution. Doug Fullington who has worked on reconstructions of several Petipa ballets using the notations says that one of the Lilac Fairy's variations, the easier of the two, has Marie Petipa's name on it while the other more demanding version is not ascribed to a named dancer.

 

All that can be said with any certainty about the technically demanding version of the variation is that it must have been devised some time between 1890 when the ballet was premiered and 1905 when the ballet was recorded in Stepanov notation.It is not even possible to say. whether or not this alternative variation is actually by Petipa. All that can be said of it is that it is more technically demanding than the one devised for Marie Petipa and, allowing for modern performance style, it is extremely close to the version danced by the RB.This second version may well have been danced in the London revival  of 1921 but was not devised for it.

 

In the nineteenth century and well into the twentieth century ballets were cast according to the rules of emploi which meant that dancers were categorised according to their physical type and their stage personalities and then cast in the roles deemed most suited to their category.One category of dancer far more highly prized in Russian ballet companies than Western ones then and now is the character dancer.Marie Petipa's great claim to fame was as a character dancer. It was her commanding stage presence; her ability to lead and perform national dances such as the czardas or to flesh out a role like Cinderella which mattered not her classical technique.This no doubt explains not only the odd structure of the role of the Lilac Fairy but the limited demands made on Marie's classical technique in the variation original choreographed for the role.The role is essentially the single Prologue solo followed by lots of walking,

 

I think that it is fair to assume that Petipa took as much care over the role  he created for his daughter to show her to best advantage as Karsavina said that he had over the variations in the Prologue which she said were tailormade for the original cast matching not only their skills but their personalities. For all we know the more demanding solo may have been devised to compensate for a  dancer later cast as the Lilac Fairy who lacked the stage presence of the original and was thought to require a very demanding solo to establish her authority and command,

 

I think that after Bergsma and Mason relinquished the role the quality of the performances of the Lilac Fairy declined significantly and it did not pick up until Nunez and Yanowsky were cast in the role. Casting Principal dancers in the role is not a guarantee of the quality of the performances that the audience will see. The company's technical weaknesses were beginning to become apparent at the time of  the 1978 recording in which Porter was cast as the Lilac Fairy and while Derman was not bad in the role, and was a lot better than some who succeeded her in it, even she was something of a comedown to those who had seen dancers like Bergsma and Mason dance the role. It is not clear whether things will now get better as a result of the reforms at the RBS and the improvements in technique which we keep hearing about. What is clear is that remarkably few of the company's outstanding Lilac Fairies received much of their training at the school most of them received that elsewhere.  Bui I have no way of knowing whether this is causal relationship or a coincidental one.

Edited March 9, 2017 by FLOSS

[alison]

Would love to know what "empanelment" is

[MAB]

I regard the 'Italian fouette' the ugliest step in ballet.

[Geoff]

This no doubt explains not only the odd structure of the role of the Lilac Fairy

...another reason being Marie Petipa doubling Lilac Fairy with an appearance as Cinderella in Act III, which inevitably restricted any Act III appearance by the Lilac Fairy to no more than a walk on (played by somebody else).

Edited March 9, 2017 by Geoff

[Jamesrhblack]

Would love to know what "empanelment" is

It's an auto correction for epaulement. Perhaps a moderator can correct my post for me ...

[betterankles]

The Italian Fouettee - the real one, as in Queen of the Dryads, releve a la seconde or ecarte, followed by a fouettee to attitude on same leg, done several times, is now a travesty of itself.

The releve a la second or ecarte used to be treated as a preparatory step, (with leg at about 90 degrees) for the fouettee, which was the meat of the enchaînement. And with lots of epaulement in both ecarte a la seconde, and the following attitude which 'hovered'.

It is now done as a high kick to show off how high the dancer's extension is, which entirely spoils the whole thing and mucks up the dynamics as well.

 

There is nothing ugly about the step when done properly!

 

As for the Lilac Fairy last enchainements. Yes, a different step from the Italian Fouettee, (it should be a series of normal fouettees to first arabesque, with a little hop between each); and the main difference to a regular fouettee (also done by men as a jump, beaten or not), is that a normal fouettee is done with a half turn, whereas these should be done with a FULL turn on pointe.

Beryl Grey does it beautifully, although 'cheated' as she only actually does a half turn on pointe, but she hovers at the end on POINTE, which makes it look light and puts the line in value.

For decades since, it has been coached with each fouettee finishing in 1st arabesque on DEMI PLIE! This not only kills the dynamics and makes the step look hard and heavy, but more tiring for the dancer to execute, killing for the thigh of the supporting leg.

 

/

[LinMM]

Thanks better ankles you've described it all so well.

I was just trying to think of how best to say that an Italian fouetté done properly is a lovely step and very classical.

 

The lilac Fairy is definitely not doing an Italian fouetté in that variation .....is it not called fouetté releve en tournant. We've been learning this step in our grade 7 class ....but not on pointe...it does require a good firm hold of the leg at 90 to look good I think.....which alas I certainly don't have..... I will recheck the name of this step...but definitely not an Italian fouetté. Some people in my class do it very well indeed!!

Edited March 10, 2017 by LinMM