Jump to content

Do you think "good dancers" are often priced out of becoming "exceptional dancers"? Thoughts please.


joyofdance

Recommended Posts

Well said dramascientist. Our middle child has just graduated from uni and our daughter has secured a contract, me and my husband have just worked out how much financially better off we are going to be over a year. It was always a worry if any of us were made redundant etc whilst our daughter was at vocational school, especially GCSE time, it would have meant her coming home. A lot of parents are constantly under that pressure, your talented child secures a place at a top vocational school, finances are worked out, then bang redundency. Thankfully that never happened to us, but it did sadly happen to some families where a child could no longer continue at that school, very very

Congratulations on your daughter securing a contract,Tulip. Is this a classical contract?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 197
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Thank you Lisa. My daughter secured a contract for a small well known ballet company that didn't pay well and me and her father refused to top up to the extent we would have to. She also secured a contract on Costa cruise ship which she was pleased about and then the one she really, really wanted came up the Royal Caribbean cruise ship. She will be very well looked after, stretched as a dancer and she is off to Australia. Elizabeth no longer wants to be a purely classical dancer even though she loves ballet a huge part of who she is. At the end of the day my daughter loves to dance and perform but she was getting fed up of being in constant pain from being on her toes all day. my daughter dream job would be to have a part in Cats, the white cat being her ultimate dream. Most of her friends graduated last year but a lot of them securing a job this year, that is why graduate lists can be out of date very quickly, one contract can end as another persons begins. Cruise ship auditions are cut throat too, students are up against ballet students and musical theatre students and a huge amount of them are after the cruises ????

  • Like 15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Lisa. My daughter secured a contract for a small well known ballet company that didn't pay well and me and her father refused to top up to the extent we would have to. She also secured a contract on Costa cruise ship which she was pleased about and then the one she really, really wanted came up the Royal Caribbean cruise ship. She will be very well looked after, stretched as a dancer and she is off to Australia. Elizabeth no longer wants to be a purely classical dancer even though she loves ballet a huge part of who she is. At the end of the day my daughter loves to dance and perform but she was getting fed up of being in constant pain from being on her toes all day. my daughter dream job would be to have a part in Cats, the white cat being her ultimate dream. Most of her friends graduated last year but a lot of them securing a job this year, that is why graduate lists can be out of date very quickly, one contract can end as another persons begins. Cruise ship auditions are cut throat too, students are up against ballet students and musical theatre students and a huge amount of them are after the cruises

Congratulations to your daughter Tulip

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also read the reviews about summer schools with interest and I cannot believe how many people whose children are at vocational school, can afford summer schools too, sometimes more than one? DD was lucky enough to go to a national ballet school abroad which was free until 16 but left because they offered no academic qualification post 16 and frankly I did not like their old fashioned views on what was healthy eating for a dancer, but that's another story. However now she is at Ballet West all our funds are used up on keeping her in pointe shoes, leotards and food, paying the top up for student finance and rent etc. She has to be dedicated to stay in shape by herself during the summer months, there isn't spare cash for her to do workshops etc. However, let's put it into perspective, these are first world problems, dancers in the UK have many opportunities which do not exist elsewhere and life is all about being in the right place at the right time, sometimes amazing people don't get opportunities (not just in the arts) just because they just don't happen to be there when the opportunity arises. Let's count our blessings, yes let's strive to make sure our children have the life they want but sometimes it's just not possible for them to have everything, let's face it we never had!

You are so right. My DD is also at vocational school and I have read comments about how bad a whole summer without dance would be in terms of keeping up fitness and technique, but after paying top up fees, accommodation, food, travel and also paying for two other children a summer filled with extra dance is out of the question! In fact my DD has spent most of her summer working to give her some spending money for the odd day out. I actually dread the messages I get telling me she needs new pointe shoes!????

Edited by kcoom75
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are so right. My DD is also at vocational school and I have read comments about how bad a whole summer without dance would be in terms of keeping up fitness and technique, but after paying top up fees, accommodation, food, travel and also paying for two other children a summer filled with extra dance is out of the question! In fact my DD has spent most of her summer working to give her some spending money for the odd day out. I actually dread the messages I get telling me she needs new pointe shoes!

You have no idea how much better reading this makes me feel! My DD starts at Ballet West in a couple of weeks and I was panicking when I read that thread as she hasn't done a summer school this year. I basically gave her a choice of a holiday or a summer school this year, and she picked a holiday. Maybe that's not dedicated enough of her, but you know, after the year of A levels, auditions and some other stresses she's had to face, I don't really blame her.

I would have liked to have done both of course, but the bottom line is that the Bank of Mum and Dad doesn't have unlimited funds and also has 2 other "customers" whose withdrawals are increasing as they get older!

She has also worked all summer to put money towards things she needs before she goes away. And of course like most others of her age she's earning minimum wage so it takes a lot of hours to earn enough for say a laptop. That hasn't left time for much else over this summer, and working has taught her a lot too.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was funding more generous in the past, or were the fees for lessons, vocational schools etc lower relative to parental incomes? I do know that fee increases for academic independent schools have far out-stripped inflation and average pay rises in the last decade so that education at such schools has become much more expensive. There have always been dancers from modest backgrounds at the RB who have come up through the RBS. How did they manage it? By going to the School at 11 and benefitting from full funding by way of grants plus scholarships from outside foundations and donors?

I'm not sure that it was more generous just that there wasn't as many students competing for it.

Before my eldest dd did JAs and I hadn't read this forum or a copy of The Dancing TimesI was completely ignorant of the ballet world and believe me ignorance in this case was bliss. I have never stressed so much in my life about ridiculous things as taking photographs , in hindsight a waste of energy , I digress.

 

The best money I have spent so far is on 1-1 tuition but this teacher is a 2 hr train journey away and I do believe if she were on our doorstep dd2 would be ,I wouldn't say amazing but a lot better than she is.

 

There is funding for some things but it is where to look ... I list a few examples I know of ,maybe a separate threat would be useful.

 

The Royal Ballet do primary steps it is free and they provide the leotards and ballet shoes even the cost of trips.

They offer means tested bursaries for associates and summer school they also now offer travel bursaries for all associates and accompanying parents that have to travel over 120 miles to get to class.

RCS and Central waive audition fees for low income families.

RCS offer bursaries for short courses

YBSS offer lots of scholarships for summer school

EYB offer scholarships

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

...My DD is also at vocational school and I have read comments about how bad a whole summer without dance would be in terms of keeping up fitness and technique, ...

 

I should really hope that having a good decent rest (besides a bit of stretching) would be just as valuable. It's not all physical strength, but mental health I assume and surely having a holiday and a good break and family time must be just as valuable. I would be interested in experts views alongside those who say they should do a summer school. 

 

:)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am with the you Annaliesy, DD was exhausted from a roller coaster of a year, she is hoping to go to do a couple of classes at pineapple in the next week or two but that is more to do with the fact that she is missing class rather than pushing herself. It's going to be abusy year and the rest she has had I believe will be invaluable to her. Rest both physical and mental is important too IMHO

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This summer my daughter has just taped into as many open classes as she can find fairly locally, there are some free ones in Liverpool this week I think, for adults. She also goes to KNT in Manchester and Liverpool. At her level she knows how to push herself and self correct etc. Summer schools in my opinion are a luxury and a treat. Take advice from your children's dance teachers regarding what they should be doing during long school holidays, they know your child the most.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many summer schools are kids doing? Are we talking a week or two or spending their whole holidays dancing hard?

My dc ( vocational) has done one week of non-residential ss, a bit of stretching and some other gentle exercise. However, I had heard of voc children doing 4 weeks of summer schools. This fills me with a huge range of concerns and conflicting emotions -

 

 

Ii really do believe that rest is vital, the summer term can be pretty full on and I think it would have done her no good whatsoever to go from a hectic term at school to weeks of extra dancing without a good break. However, I swing between this belief and thoughts along the lines of ....are my lack of finances putting my child ( young adult really) at a disadvantage as we couldn't afford more than we've done, (and have other priorities too). I worry that she will be one of those that gets left behind because of lack of funds, it is quite scary to hear how many of her peers are doing multiple well known summer schools, private lessons etc. Is that what gives good dancers with potential the opportunity to become exceptional?

 

I have followed this thread with great interest but my gut instincts are being challenged all the time by, well I guess you'd call it peer pressure of a sort. I guess all we can do is go with what seems right for our families at the time. Some very good points have been made about finding the best value for money and the best option for your own individual child, but it is hard to turn your back on some very well respected training/performing opportunities due purely to finance so in answer to the original post, yes I guess it happens...

Edited by along for the ride mum
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do potentially excellent dancers sometimes not fulfil their potential? Yes, that unfortunately probably happens all the time for various reasons. However, I don't personally think that, all else being equal, an inability to send a child to expensive summer schools or holiday courses should be a reason.

 

For me, it is far more important that they are getting good training in their 'ordinary' dance classes i.e. the school they go to for lessons week in, week out all year round. They will spend many more hours here than at any holiday courses. The difference between getting excellent training and getting average training will be significant across just one term, let alone when you multiply that across several years.

 

I agree with previous replies about work ethic too. A student who is approaching each class in the right frame of mind and is practising regularly at home will always progress more quickly and no holiday course is going to make up that difference!

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ds has done 2 weeks ss after 4 weeks recovery from a hard term and GCSE's. Now for another 2 weeks of rest. Although it's rest in a relative sense as he always does his own strengthening/fitness/stretching but with plenty of TV (as never gets any at school) family time and friends.

 

Where we live, open classes and travel are more expensive than summer school and he needs 'training' not open classes. You have to do what is right for your child. Luckily, nowadays there are so many options out there you can fine tune your requirements. If money wasn't available for these ss it would be a matter of keeping mobile and fit, doing Pilates and strengthening. You do what you can, your children do what they can - you can't feel bad about it if you do your best.

 

If these DC are meant to be professional dancers they will be. If not they will do something else! Lack of money may stop them, injury may stop them, the wrong growth pattern may stop them, a change of heart even, the list is endless. Life is a journey, I'm sure a huge array of people have a 'what if' story. To me, 'what ifs' are a waste of time and energy. Get on with 'what is', enjoy the journey and keep an open mind.

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks LinMM that's very good news as I've always thought it grossly unfair that a good dancer should be excluded from training based on finances alone.

 

I never realised until reading the boards how much investment -in every sense and not just financial - it takes to get a dancer on stage. I have to say I really do applaud all of the parents who support their children through the trials and tribulations of a dance career. They may never receive a standing ovation like their DDs or DS' but they definitely deserve one!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Behind every successful child be it in dance, music or sport, is a skint supportive parent. A thought though famous violinists eg Vanessa May, opera singers, tennis players have all had hours upon hours of private coaching, they were spotted for their talent and couched to make them who they are today. Funding may have come from governments etc, however initially a parent must have paid for a violin, classes a tennis racket etc, therefore this child was initially given an opportunity to begin with as apposed to a child who's parents financially could never afford even a basic class as a hobby. Money always comes into it, life isn't faire and as someone else pointed out , look what is going on in the world.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many summer schools are kids doing? Are we talking a week or two or spending their whole holidays dancing hard?

My DD has just done the one, and that was a special treat, as she has worked very hard at both school and dancing this year, with some fabulous results, and this was her wish.

 

Her dance teacher approved and said she thought it would be good for DD, and that she would enjoy it, and learn a lot. She did!

 

In September DD starts high school and will be dancing after school several nights a week. she would like to do more, but I don't think she has the time, ( she still needs time to be a child ) plus financially it isn't really an option.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I came down to London to teach in the 70's the then ILEA was very generous and there was a lot of music going on in schools then. Children who were keen to try out an instrument just had a go and those lessons were funded by ILEA.

The first school I worked at in London ....now very close to the new Arsenal football stadium ...in Hornsey Road had a full orchestra!!

 

I don't know when things started to go downhill probably very early 90's but then in some schools the only music was singing and sometimes just taught by a radio session!!

 

Now music lessons (instruments) in state schools have to be paid for by the parents if they are run at all.

 

One good teacher can be a marvel though.

I started teaching in Liverpool at Pleasant Street Board School ( now rebuilt on other side of road) and the Deputy Head then a certain Mrs Jones ( from Wales of course) ran a choir and the sound she got out of those children was quite amazing ....really musical ...not shouty shouty as it often tends to be today where often volume is put before quality of sound.

 

My room was next to the hall and when she was rehearsing them I used to go deliberately into my classroom to listen. I can still,hear them singing "Past Three O clock" a lovely old carol and sets me off if I Hear it today!!

 

Just to add that I wish music would come back into schools and at least in the primary years ....free for all.

Some children who have talent are absolutely excluded from pursuing certain things ( not just ballet) because of the expense and most of the children at Pleasant Street were very poor they'd have had very little chance of succeeding in anything that needed extra funds.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you Lisa. My daughter secured a contract for a small well known ballet company that didn't pay well and me and her father refused to top up to the extent we would have to. She also secured a contract on Costa cruise ship which she was pleased about and then the one she really, really wanted came up the Royal Caribbean cruise ship. She will be very well looked after, stretched as a dancer and she is off to Australia. Elizabeth no longer wants to be a purely classical dancer even though she loves ballet a huge part of who she is. At the end of the day my daughter loves to dance and perform but she was getting fed up of being in constant pain from being on her toes all day. my daughter dream job would be to have a part in Cats, the white cat being her ultimate dream. Most of her friends graduated last year but a lot of them securing a job this year, that is why graduate lists can be out of date very quickly, one contract can end as another persons begins. Cruise ship auditions are cut throat too, students are up against ballet students and musical theatre students and a huge amount of them are after the cruises

A  cruise ship contract to Australia. Sounds fantastic. Congratulations to your DD. x

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I came down to London to teach in the 70's the then ILEA was very generous and there was a lot of music going on in schools then. Children who were keen to try out an instrument just had a go and those lessons were funded by ILEA.

The first school I worked at in London ....now very close to the new Arsenal football stadium ...in Hornsey Road had a full orchestra!!

 

I don't know when things started to go downhill probably very early 90's but then in some schools the only music was singing and sometimes just taught by a radio session!!

 

Now music lessons (instruments) in state schools have to be paid for by the parents if they are run at all.

 

One good teacher can be a marvel though.

I started teaching in Liverpool at Pleasant Street Board School ( now rebuilt on other side of road) and the Deputy Head then a certain Mrs Jones ( from Wales of course) ran a choir and the sound she got out of those children was quite amazing ....really musical ...not shouty shouty as it often tends to be today where often volume is put before quality of sound.

 

My room was next to the hall and when she was rehearsing them I used to go deliberately into my classroom to listen. I can still,hear them singing "Past Three O clock" a lovely old carol and sets me off if I Hear it today!!

 

Just to add that I wish music would come back into schools and at least in the primary years ....free for all.

Some children who have talent are absolutely excluded from pursuing certain things ( not just ballet) because of the expense and most of the children at Pleasant Street were very poor they'd have had very little chance of succeeding in anything that needed extra funds.

When I started at Northern Ballet School in Manchester when I was 12, it was strikingly obvious that we were the poorest family there, by a mile. All the other girls came each week by car. We had to get the bus. A large percentage of them had tutors, and ponies. We were the poorest family on one of the poorest streets on a council estate. As well as the Saturday lessons, which increased from just one, one hour lesson during the RAD grades, to a few lessons on a Saturday for RAD Senior Grade and Pre Elementary,Elementary,etc. But really, in the low down grades even , all the ones who could afford it as well as their one hour Saturday class also went on either Monday or Wednesday night for a one hour Coaching Class. All these girls were put in for the RAD exam after a year. It was pretty obvious that the ones who didn't do the extra class were not going to be ready. The Coaching Class was an extra £40 a term. My mum had to find it from somewhere,somehow. [Child Benefit at the time was £4.00 a week, to give you some idea]. The teacher [Marcia Rhodes, who was lovely with the younger ones] one day after centre work, started asking everyone individually to clap out the times to Crotchets, Quavers, Semi Quavers,etc. It came to my turn  and I didn't have a clue what she was talking about. It transpired the vast majority of the girls in the class also had piano lessons. After a few weeks I felt really uncomfortable and out of the loop. My mum spoke to the school music teacher and they arranged to have instrument tuition. The only instruments available were brass instruments. I started on the cornet. It was too small and I could emit no sound out of it whatsoever. So the teacher gave me the Trombone to try. It worked !! So I had weekly Trombone lessons, which I absolutely hated from start to finish, BTW. I had to practice an old song I had never heard of called "Home on The Range". Luckily my mum knew it, so she had to keep singing it to me so I had a rough idea of the tune. Stuck with the lessons for a year. Never really progressed much at all. And by then for some reason the Northern had stopped this idea of quizzing us about Crotchets ,Quavers and the like.

Edited by Lisa O`Brien
  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My daughter only ever did one summer school and only if finances were good. I still consider SS a luxury and a treat.

Its all relative - there are many families who would consider dance lessons to be a luxury and a treat! Are SS essential? probably not but they are a great way of checking out a school if you are seriously contemplating auditioning for it, and, if you are a strictly after school and at weekends dancer, its one way to find out if you really want to spend all day every day dancing. My dd spends two weeks of the year 'living the dream' and although it means that our 'holiday' is very basic or non existent we don't begrudge it to her. It has really boosted her confidence and has put her in touch with many like minded dc. She has also learned a lot from working with different teachers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well we did Jennifer Ellison's SS and stayed with a friends relatives and the cost of the SS was £100 for the week! It was jazz, commercial, contemporary with a tiny bit of ballet

 

Then DD is doing a SS with a local ballet teacher and I'm pretty excited that she loved it so much today as over the last six months she's been on a bit of a downer about her ballet so it's been lovely to see her enthusiasm at a week of mostly ballet with a bit of contemporary:)

 

That's our two low cost, hand picked SS with some pineapple classes

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...