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Interesting article on body image in dance


drdance

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https://www.the-pool.com/health/health/2016/28/can-ballet-be-body-positive

 

This is a really interesting article and relevant to all dancers whether vocational or recreational. Particular interest regarding threads about personality and issues at vocational schools: 

 

"Dance psychologist Dr Peter Lovatt acknowledges that, in an environment focused on turning out professional ballerinas, there can be collateral damage on young students. “There’s always a struggle in a ballet school – I’ve spoken to teachers at vocational schools about this,” he says. “There’s a tension between producing a new Darcey Bussell, and also protecting the psychological wellbeing of all of the people who pass through the school.” His research at the University of Hertfordshire’s Dance Psychology Lab has found that dancing for fun boosts self-esteem – the problems seem to crop up when a dancer becomes obsessive, or when their self-image starts to depend on succeeding.

 

The hopeful news from One Dance UK is that research has identified better ways of teaching – and these are actually being put into practice. “In environments where there’s cooperation, and teachers are supportive of what the psychologists call ‘basic psychological needs’ – a sense of feeling autonomous, a sense of feeling related or belonging in your environment, and also a sense of personal competence – then people tend to be much more creative, they tend to have much healthier attitudes towards their bodies and they also tend to have better performance outcomes,” says Sanchez. “This is something that’s being rolled out quite a lot in sport and in dance, to try and help protect those very vulnerable young people.” The Royal Ballet School, says Sanchez, is one of those leading the way."

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I am not sure what the answer is here - clearly there are many kids who join vocational school at year 7 and then change shape (or grow too tall or stay too small).  For example many boys don't make it to upper school because they are "too short", but that shouldn't be a surprise should it?   I think I can tell which kids are going to have a chance of "making it" professionally (classical) just by looking at the height/shape of their parents.  I know it's not PC but the schools should pay more attention to this I think.  Otherwise they are setting these kids up to fail and are not protecting the "very vulnerable young people".  

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Lord help my kids if that's the case! ;) In all seriousness my shape changed significantly after having kids and getting older and bears very little resemblance to the one I was blessed with in my twenties and early thirties. I am short and my husband is tall so that wouldn't help much either. Of course there are other cases where future height/shape might be much easier to predict :-)

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Arghh! That would be another stick to beat parents with (I didn't get into vocational training because my mother is the wrong shape). Both my daughters have stopped growing now, one is 5'9 and the other 5'4 - absolutely no idea why given same parentage, diet etc I also know other sets of siblings where there is a huge variance in body morphology so genetic predictions are highly inexact. Dance students drop by the wayside for many reasons of which changing body shape is just one factor. You are absolutely right though that its important that such difficulties are managed sensitively.

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I am not sure what the answer is here - clearly there are many kids who join vocational school at year 7 and then change shape (or grow too tall or stay too small). For example many boys don't make it to upper school because they are "too short", but that shouldn't be a surprise should it? I think I can tell which kids are going to have a chance of "making it" professionally (classical) just by looking at the height/shape of their parents. I know it's not PC but the schools should pay more attention to this I think. Otherwise they are setting these kids up to fail and are not protecting the "very vulnerable young people".

.

 

Wow, I'm glad you can tell so clearly from looking at parents bodies????

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Look - I know that my post was going to cause some debate and make some people feel uncomfortable.  So having posted it I thought - Ok let's google Darcy Bussell's mother for example and have a look at whether or not she is short and plump or tall and balletic.  It's the latter.  Of course there are exceptions but as a general rule most children follow one or other birth parent (sometimes both) but two 5 ft 5 well built parents are not likely to end up with a 6ft 2 lean kid, that's all.

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I don't know what the solution is but the "problem" is that so many girls are assessed out of vocational schools at age 13/14 or 16 and whichever way it is put to them it must be obvious to them that a lot of the time it is due to body issues.  This can't be good for future mental health, and perhaps could have been foreseen in some circumstances.  

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I think you are probably right ZooZoo and I agree there is no easy solution.  It's not only dance though, I believe football academies face similar assessments and I am sure other specialism schools will be similar.

 

A dancer once said to us that dancers have to be not only aware of their own bodies but their limitations too.  Is this instilled into them in schools so that if they are, unfortunately, assessed out it should not come as a surprise and a plan B can be ready and waiting?

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It is certainly a problem that teenagers are being assessed out of vocational schools because of physique. At least these students are aware of the requirements for a ballet dancer's physique, however. It is also a problem when non-vocational school students are assessed out of associate schemes for that reason. No-one wants a young dancer feeling that they have failed because of something they cannot change, rather than because they haven't worked hard enough or aren't as talented as someone else.

 

Unfortunately however that is the reality of classical ballet as an aesthetic art. Students aiming for a professional career as a classical ballet dancer should be made aware of its cruel aesthetic requirements from being very young, rather than being allowed to believe that talent and hard work will carry them through when sadly that isn't the case. I know there is a line to be drawn between making that clear and causing a young dancer to lose all confidence and enthusiasm, but I believe that every dance teacher has a duty to pass the message on.

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What is it about their physique that leads to them being assessed out? Presumably flexibility, turnout/ proportions etc don't change enormously so is it just height/ weight? If you looked at the individuals growth chart it is supposedly very unusual to deviate hugely

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I don't know exactly what it is but I have seen that puberty can be kind or cruel in terms of changing proportions as well as the usual changes puberty brings with it. Some children seem to retain their pre-puberty shape (and presumably this was considered 'correct' for classical ballet if in vocational schools) while others lose that ballet 'look'.

 

Obviously some - possibly most - students will be assessed out for reasons other than their physique.

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I find this notion of pupils being assessed out because of physique very interesting because at one of the summer shows this year it was quite obvious that the upper school had quite a range of physiques. These are obviously youngsters who have had to go through auditions at 16, post-puberty, and physique doesn't seem to have made a difference to them being accepted.

Edited by farawaydancer
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It's a topic that comes up from time to time on this forum and I think I've worked out that my personal discomfort is around the fact that for many sports, for example, certain physical traits are going to have clear advantages. My petite DDs won't be professional basketball players that's for sure. However, you could have the most exquisite dancer that we could end up never seeing perform because she or he doesn't fit the mould that is considered aesthetically most pleasing (by some companies) and the idea of having to say someone has not been chosen because they look wrong rather than are not good enough could certainly lead to issues. Having said all that, it's great that there are well known exceptions from time to time and I'm also well aware of some specific requirements that make sense such as having Corps dancers of similar heights etc. Hopefully if schools and companies are open and honest about their criteria that is at least a start.

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I think that it's dangerous to look at parental physique as a predictor of the height, build etc of an aspiring dancer. Genetics is a role of the dice and, as others have said, children in the same family can turn out very differently. I've seen children who have turned out tall even though their parents are on the short side. Sometimes, there is a tall grandparent who has passed his/her genes on to his/her grandchild. With girls, sometimes they just fill out in a way that does not meet the usual ballet aesthetic ie larger thighs and bottom. As a nation the British tend to be quite stocky. If you see ballerinas up close they are generally really fine boned and much more slightly built than most women are once they leave their mid-teens. I've seen many gazelle-like 12 or 13 year olds fill out by the time they are 15 or 16 with the result that they are, in ballet terms, quite stocky with 'thick' calves and big bottoms to which a thin leotard does no favours. It's harsh, but that's how it is. Aesthetics are part of the package.

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Picking up on farawaydancers point about the range of physiques at upper school, I would just like to say that for both girls and boys, changes relating to puberty are not necessarily finished by the age of 16 and the time of auditions for upper school. Boys have often not finished growing at this stage or filling out a skinny frame. I know of more than one boy not offered a place at upper school aged 16 as they have not been tall enough or physically ready but who aged 17 are significantly taller and broader. And girls often change shape age 17/18 - gaining curves for example - quite a few years after puberty.

 

I also think it is dangerous to look at parental and even grandparents as too much of a predictor of height/build of an aspiring dancer. My friend and her husband are both about 5'6" tall, slim build with their parents shorter or similar height. Their 4 children range in height from 5'5" to 6'3" and only 2 of them have the slim frame of their parents.

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So, what happens to those 16 year old boys who don't get an US place because they are too short and too skinny? Boys that are young in the year are actually auditioning at 15. My non-dancing son is very young in the year and it has definitely been a disadvantage for him, particularly as he has always been rather immature for his age and was a late developer. As has been demonstrated by Malcolm Gladwell, your position in the school year can have a profound effect on your life, older children generally benefitting from being taller, stronger, more physically developed, more mature etc compared with their peers against whom they are judged when so much is organised along school year lines.

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Aileen - the two boys I know personally were both told why a place was not offered and asked to audition the following year, which they did successfully. One of them was a day pupil at the vocational school already for lower school and I know some arrangement was made so that he was able to take some classes there still. The other boy continued training locally, although I know the school in question kept in touch with him. This is different schools and a few years apart. Both were summer birthdays - July and August.

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So, what happens to those 16 year old boys who don't get an US place because they are too short and too skinny? Boys that are young in the year are actually auditioning at 15. My non-dancing son is very young in the year and it has definitely been a disadvantage for him, particularly as he has always been rather immature for his age and was a late developer. As has been demonstrated by Malcolm Gladwell, your position in the school year can have a profound effect on your life, older children generally benefitting from being taller, stronger, more physically developed, more mature etc compared with their peers against whom they are judged when so much is organised along school year lines.

My Ds was a very young 15 at US auditions last year. He was both short and skinny ! He was unsuccessful and went to his local school to do A levels and continued to train. After growing and filling out he re- auditioned this year and will commence US in September in 6:1. I know of young ladies also starting USs at 17 and 18.

It is difficult sometimes to predict the finished product. Dd is following her brothers pattern ????

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some schools are still interested in parents height....at prelim audition my dd attended for an US last year, a smaller girl was asked at the end how tall she was and what height her parents were! As this was done in front of some of the other girls, my dd included, it is not hearsay, sadly true!

 

That's awful! Although it is not unreasonable to ask (in an appropriate manner) about the height and weight of a prospective student (required on many application forms) and some US are completely upfront about height requirements. I do however, have a real issue with them asking for data concerning family members because it just doesn't add any value and is potentially misleading.

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some schools are still interested in parents height....at prelim audition my dd attended for an US last year, a smaller girl was asked at the end how tall she was and what height her parents were! As this was done in front of some of the other girls, my dd included, it is not hearsay, sadly true!

Some people might be uncomfortable with this - especially since children may only be living with one parent, or a step-parent, or indeed guardians. It would have upset me greatly to have been asked this as a child, since my father had passed away.

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