Bullying/swearing/bad behaviour at voc schools

[Happymum]

I feel very sad and disappointed after hearing worrying stories from DCd currently at vocational schools. I know that probably I was naive thinking that "ballet teenagers" are different then ordinary teenagers, that vocational school will be "better" then local secondary. I was so shocked to hear about boys calling much younger girls "b...ch", year 8+ children smoking, older girls bullying younger girls etc etc. (By the way these are facts I've heard from more then one child from more then one vocational school).
Why? How come? What for? Is it so normal at any boarding school? I feel sad... And very naive..

[Happymum]

Mods please correct the "bullying" typo in the title, I don't know how to do it, sorry

[Jan McNulty]

Done.

 

Bullying seems endemic in all walks of life these days.  It is dreadful and can seriously damage a person's emotional health, whatever their age.

 

I was bullied on 2 occasions in my working life and still get upset if I try to talk about it.  One of my nieces was bullied in her secondary school - she gained a lot of confidence from joining the drama group but it still hurt her.  When I was telling one of my colleagues about my niece being bullied, my colleague started crying because she had been bullied at school and this was over 30 years after the event.

 

I would have thought that with the environment being much more controlled in a vocational school environment that bullying and bad behaviour would have been much more visible to the staff and that it would be easier to take action against the bullies.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I've got two children. One in year 9 of a vocational school & one in year 7 of an academic private school.

 

I think both are as bad as each other in their own ways. Ds has been subject to homophobic comments (a boy who sings & excels at drama must be "bent" apparently , physical pushing & shoving & social exclusion from mostly boys in his school. It often goes unchecked unless it's in the public eye & behaviour in class is expected to be impeccable. This all goes on outside of class.

 

At dds school there has been bitchiness amongst girls & they do seem keen to keep everyone in school regardless of behaviour but I think in other aspects are better than ds's school. However low level disruption is often allowed.

 

Both schools however are miles ahead in terms of behaviour than our local state school though I've heard excellent things from other parents about behaviour & bullying the other nearby school that unfortunately was full when I applied for a place for Ds.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Picturesinthefirelight

[capybara]

I feel very sad and disappointed after hearing worrying stories from DCd currently at vocational schools. I know that probably I was naive thinking that "ballet teenagers" are different then ordinary teenagers, that vocational school will be "better" then local secondary. I was so shocked to hear about boys calling much younger girls "b...ch", year 8+ children smoking, older girls bullying younger girls etc etc. (By the way these are facts I've heard from more then one child from more then one vocational school).

Why? How come? What for? Is it so normal at any boarding school? I feel sad... And very naive..

 

Presumably you will make an opportunity to raise your concerns with staff at the schools concerned? You could do it in a non-accusatory way and enquire whether they are aware that there might be a problem.

[Jan McNulty]

Several posts on this thread have been hidden because they could have led to children being identifiable.  Members should speak about their own experiences and not about what they may have heard "on the grapevine".

 

It is suggested that members think very carefully about the content of their posts to prevent their own or other people's children from being identified.

[Waitingmum]

That is sad - I haven't heard of any issues from my DD at her vocational school and they all seem to get on in an incredibly supportive manner considering the pressure they are under.

I hope that the schools addresses these issues rapidly.

[Anon2]

The children live on top of each other 24/7 and sometimes tensions run high.

I've no experience of hearing about bullying outside particular year groups or smoking as mentioned by the OP.

I would advise if your dc is being bullied or feels uncomfortable with some of the behaviour raise your issues both verbally and in writing with the pastoral team, if the problem isn't addressed satisfactorily then escalate to the principal.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I think bullying & bad behaviour goes on at all schools, it's how it's dealt with that matters.

 

Some schools deny it, some sweep it under the carpet. Some come down hard which is good but occasionally leads to the reasons for it occurring being missed.

 

Anywhere where you get groups of young people together in one place with different personalities all jostling for position there are going to be problems.

[Harwel]

We personally have not been faced with bullying at vocational school. Occasionally there are niggles between children which can be difficult for young people to deal with when away from home. On a couple of occasions I have emailed school - pastoral team or form tutor, just to highlight that help or guidance may be needed. I have been very impressed with the speed and effective treatment of such issues and the communication back to me.

[All4dancers]

I think it is also important to give your child strategies to cope with this type of behaviour. Of course they won't always work and it is equally important to know when to ask for help. I only ever had to make a telephone call on 2 occasions and found the school to be excellent but boarding staff not so good.

[Pups_mum]

I think it would be more of a surprise if this kind of thing wasn't a problem in vocational schools. Bullying and bad behaviour are issues in mainstream schools, and local dance schools as many posts on this site show. When academic school, dance school and home are the same place for a big chunk of the year and young people are living on top of each other,there are bound to be tensions at times. Especially given the competitive and pressured nature of the dance world. Not that that makes it ok of course, and I think the schools have a definite duty to deal with it when it happens. But I also agree with the previous poster regarding the importance of parents helping their children develop strategies to deal with it. Being open about the possibility of these kind of issues is probably a good place to start.

[angel]

Yes teaching strategies for dealing with bullying is essential but unfortunately that is the way schools try to deal with it instead of tackling the problem head on and speaking to those children behaving badly. Children shouldn't have to learn to deal with day in day out name calling and chipping away at their self esteem, just for getting a part or improving or even losing weight. The potential for creating a situation where children use self harm as a means of control is way too high in my opinion.

[drdance]

It is well documented (among dance science research - see work by Linda Hamilton among other) that adults who dance at high level all have the same personality type, which is highly driven and perfectionist (Type A). Therefore one would assume that a lot of the children at any of the 'big 4' will also have similar personality types. I would imagine that lots of this type of young person in a closed environment such as a boarding school could be volatile, especially if their teachers have similar traits. It is something that pastoral staff should maybe be more attuned to.

 

http://www.simplypsychology.org/personality-a.html gives some info about type As: [edited for brevity and simplicity]

 

Typical responses of TABP include:

Competitiveness

Type A individuals tend to be very competitive and self-critical. They strive toward goals without feeling a sense of joy in their efforts or accomplishments.

Interrelated with this is the presence of a significant life imbalance.  This is characterized by a high work involvement.  Type A individuals are easily ‘wound up’ and tend to overreact. 

Time Urgency

Type A personalities experience a constant sense of urgency: Type A people seem to be in a constant struggle against the clock. Often, they quickly become impatient with delays and unproductive time, schedule commitments too tightly, and try to do more than one thing at a time.

Hostility

Type A individuals tend to be easy to anger or prone to hostility, which they may or may not express overtly. Such individuals tend to see the worse in others, displaying anger, envy and a lack of compassion.

When this behavior is expressed overtly (i.e. physical behavior) it generally involves aggression and possible bullying (Forshaw, 2012). 

[All4dancers]

Thank you Dr Dance - very interesting. Also in cases where an individual finds it difficult to express their emotions, then the hostility can be internalised and perhaps result in self harm..

[Nana Lily]

There is a fabulous programme which can help all children with self esteem, instilling kindness and coping mechanisms if experiencing bulling type behaviours. It's called Bucket Filling or a Bucket Full of Happiness. If they are experiencing negative behaviours from others there are coping mechanisms for 'keeping a lid on your bucket' to keep the happiness in.... Some corporations use this too and it is used by schools on the US.

 

http://bucketfillers101.com/free-resources.php

 

Hope this helps

 

NL

[CeliB]

thank you Nana Lily for the link- I will show it to my son (the non dancer) who struggles far more with bullying and self esteem at ordinary state school than DS ever has at vocational school.

 

I think Pictures is completely right- all schools have bullying incidents, it's how they manage them that is important. And, dare I say it, how the parents react - I recall one child at DDs primary school who was accused (quite rightly) of bullying by several different children at different times, and each time the parents simply told the teachers they were being racist and refused to address it.

 

Funnily enough tho' I think DS is absolutely NOT a type A personality- not a single one of the traits above match him except for being self critical about his dancing (but never in a terribly stressed way). He is completely unfussed by anyone else's success, measures his own achievements against himself and no-one else, is totally chilled about time keeping and tasks/ lists (academically he always did the bare minimum) and almost NEVER gets angry. I wonder sometimes how he has managed to get so far given he is so laid back! 

[sarahw]

I agree bullying happens everywhere and my kids have experienced it at school and home dancing. It's them being away from home that makes me feel more worried about it at vocational school.

[Happymum]

After a few days it doesn't sound as bad as it did when I've heard about it all. Thankfully I didn't hear any stories about serious bulling, it's more about older DC not being nice towards younger DC. I'm sorry to read about more serious problems that others had. I agree that they are just teenagers and they do spent a lot of time together and get frustrated ect. After a short research I know that it's much worse at a local school for example. I'm still going to write a feedback to one of the schools but I've made sure that houseparnts have already reacted accordingly.

[Guest]

If smoking (cigarettes I assume) is the worst thing that they are doing, I should not be too worried. And they probably don't get many opportunities to go to the alarming teenage "hey my parents have gone away" parties that my children tell me about in shock horror tones. As long as our children feel able to be open with us and tell us what's on their minds,at least we are able to help if needed so just tell them to keep talking!

[angel]

Some of the things I have heard kids getting up to in vocational schools have made me wince ( and I am pretty laid back) but I have had children in other boarding schools, one that made the national news) which have been just as bad. Kids eh (was never like that in my day! )

[Harwel]

Since ds been at vocational school we have been aware of a few expulsions for breaches of acceptable behaviour. Some things have no second chances - very serious Offences - and other things attract a serious warning with one second chance. I am sure this is the same in many schools, but as a parent with a child at boarding school, I find this a great comfort that these hard decisions are taken and it has no bearing on level of talent! Kids will be kids and some will always overstep the boundaries. As long as there are consequences which are acted upon in a consistent manor, children and parents know where they stand.

[Pas de Quatre]

If only that were the case Harwel.  When DD was at Vocational School in 6th form it seemed that some favourites could get away with murder, and some others would be in trouble for the slightest thing.

[2dancersmum]

I've know of expulsions due to unacceptable behaviour also, including at upper school so I know it happens.

 

Interesting the personality study. I have to say neither of my DDs would fit type A in the slightest. Self critical about their own dancing is probably the closest , but even then its not without the joy of accomplishing something they have been working on.

[Harwel]

If only that were the case Harwel. When DD was at Vocational School in 6th form it seemed that some favourites could get away with murder, and some others would be in trouble for the slightest thing.

It has certainly been so in the last 2 years. obviously we are not aware of every single situation that occurs but for these serious offences I'm aware of, a few expulsions have occurred.

[Colman]

"It is well documented (among dance science research - see work by Linda Hamilton among other) that adults who dance at high level all have the same personality type,"

 

"All"? Really? Do you have a reference for that?

[Sherbert]

"It is well documented (among dance science research - see work by Linda Hamilton among other) that adults who dance at high level all have the same personality type,"

 

"All"? Really? Do you have a reference for that?

I'm guessing the work by Linda Hamilton...????

 

Smart Alec comments aside, each of my three children go to different (but all independent) schools, no school is immune from poor behaviours of students and I would not believe any school administrator that suggested otherwise. Proactive, firm and consistent action is the key.

[Colman]

"I'm guessing the work by Linda Hamilton..."

 

My google-fu on this doesn't seem to be up to scratch: I'm not familiar enough with the area to dig up the reference. 

[sarahw]

I wonder if we feel less confident about raising such issues with vocational schools because our dc have been given a place at the school and we feel 'grateful? '

[taxi4ballet]

My dd has been fortunate enough to have met (and been taught by) a fair few well-known and top level ballet professionals, and I'd say from what she's said afterwards that they were most definitely not the same personality types at all. Her comments have ranged from "Lovely, so sweet", "ever so nice" and "really helpful", to "What a p****, totally up himself" 

[drdance]

"It is well documented (among dance science research - see work by Linda Hamilton among other) that adults who dance at high level all have the same personality type,"

 

"All"? Really? Do you have a reference for that?

OK Ok I accept my poor choice of words ALL is misleading but should have said a large proportion of those studied. 

 

References:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2757131

 

http://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED353502

 

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED353502.pdf

 

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3200/SOCP.144.1.31-48

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=67o_CQAAQBAJ&pg=PA159&lpg=PA159&dq=personality+type+dancers+hamilton&source=bl&ots=p26Nt8ENIu&sig=xIBpbLik9B0P_gq5oFxuj8UeXnU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjp6a-Nuu7NAhVjIMAKHTn0CosQ6AEIJDAB#v=onepage&q=personality%20type%20dancers%20hamilton&f=false

[CeliB]

I don't think being a type A or B means you are all identical to others of your type- after all there are only 2 personality types in that particular lexicon so clearly we don't all fit into an exact either/or identikit personality. 

 

As a classic type A I recognise many of the traits described, but am also regularly described as empathetic, kind, helpful etc... type A is more about the internal battle you wage with yourself than how you interact with others I would say...

 

 

In some ways I am surprised that dancers are more commonly type A and survive such a gruelling competitive environment. I personally feel my DS's personality is much more resilient (once he bestirs himself to get out of bed, that is).... I would have thought a type A would be far more likely yes to achieve highly but also to crash and burn more easily...

 

edited to add

...tho having glanced at your references I'm not terribly convinced about the evidence presented (I guess there must be more out there than you've posted?) a lot of the studies quoted seem to be looking at personality traits of dancers AFTER they have achieved a certain level- can't help wondering if they started out with those traits or whether those traits were the ones selectively enhanced and reinforced by the nature of the training.... I *think* there is evidence that whilst the fundamental personality doesn't change, personality traits do change in response to to external factors... not my field though so I'm not an expert..

Edited July 12, 2016 by CeliB

[Guest]

If only that were the case Harwel.  When DD was at Vocational School in 6th form it seemed that some favourites could get away with murder, and some others would be in trouble for the slightest thing.

Or to put it another way: if you are good you will not get into trouble and if you are really good you will get out of it.