Does anyone else feel the same?!

[Lema]

I know this may come across as a silly question but I just wondered if anyone else feels the same, or is it just me? So the question is.....don't you just wish someone could be straight with you and maybe give you all the answers ????

I feel like I never get a straight answer about dd and Her ability, potential or possibilities for the future!! Now obviously I know that nobody could ever give you the answers unless they had a crystal ball and of course different teachers have different opinions and things they look for, but I do feel that nobody is ever just straight with me, and I'm aware that they are talking about a child so obviously they don't want to hurt feelings, place doubt and negativity in the mind or even give the wrong advice, But as a complete novice and none dancing mom sometimes I wish teachers would spell it out a little clearer for me!! I should also maybe add that I am an absolute pessimist and always see the negative so maybe that's why I feel I need to know what others think as I know my judgement is often clouded by negativity!! As most of you will know my dd has only been doing Ballet for less than two years and was lucky enough to reach finals for 3 of the top 4 ballet schools and an offer of an unfunded place at Tring this year, which I know is a great achievement but I do worry about her being behind her peers with not having as many years under her belt and worry she will fall behind, but I don't have a clue as to whether she is behind and if so how much and what I can do to catch her up? Probably doesn't help also that we've had some changes and started a new school so I don't feel confident enough to ask her new teacher for fear of coming across as "that mom" lol To be honest I don't know why I worry so much as I think as long as she enjoys it and wants to continue trying then I will always support and encourage her, but I worry about her setting all her hopes on something that may never happen?! I suppose all we can do is prepare them for the no's that may come and not fill them with false hope whilst encouraging them to enjoy and work hard and have a back up plan too!! Lol, hopefully I'm not the only one wishing for a crystal ball ????

[Harwel]

Oh Lema I hear you! I am fortunate that I come from a dancing background so have some understanding of what's required but I have a boy - I paid no attention whatsoever to dancing boys when I was a student and things have changed so much over the last 30 years. When it is your own child it is so difficult to be objective, I see all the faults, the inadequacies and I know how hard it is to get a job. When I do see something I like, I then question myself thinking I only think that because he's my son! Poor boy can't win with a mother like me!

 

I think we just have to focus on the enjoyment side of it, as long as they love what they do then let them pursue it as long as possible. Make sure they keep focused with their school work and be aware of other job options, should they be needed. Dancing is a great pursuit for them, gives them focus and helps with so many aspects of life in general - we all want to protect our children from hurt and disappointment but to let them follow a dream is an amazing gift to give our children. With your support and encouragement your daughter will find her path in life and hopefully you will both have some wonderful memories of the wonderful things she has done along the way.

[Kate_N]

Also coming from a dance/theatre family (my mother & sister were/are professional dancers), I second what Harwel says. You have to take a long view, and keep as many options open as possible. With dance, things hap[pen both very very slowly (so I wouldn't worry too much about her "catching up") and quite fast (like injury).

 

Get the best training you can, and keep up with a good general education.

 

Teachers can't be 'straight' with you, because they don't know either. All they can say is how a dancer is doing now, and what s/he has to work on. But if your DD has had some good experiences in terms of auditions, placements in classes etc, then that's what you've got. Then training slow & steady, and it will be what it will be. If you can see her dance training as part of her overall education & training for life, then she will be well prepared.

 

I think at the moment in the UK, there's such an anti-arts bias in public discussions and governmet education policy, sometimes it 's hard to stick with that "old-fashioned" idea of education as a way of building the whole person. The Germans in the 18th & 19th century got it right: they talked about the idea of Bildung - education creating a person to become the best person they could become, not just to get a job, or simply achieve this or that salary or degree, but "self-cultivation" -- to  become the best person you can become.

 

It's not a bad principle in life ...

Edited September 24, 2015 by Kate_N

[Anna C]

No matter what happens in the future, your daughter's years of dancing will never ever be a waste of time. My daughter was offered an unfunded place at Tring at 11 but it was out of the question for us, so she successfully applied for a very good Associate scheme and passed her Assessments every year, moving up each year. She had wonderful non-syllabus training there for 5 years which supplemented her local syllabus classes. She made lovely friends there, loved her classes, studied Contemporary which she wouldn't have done locally. At the same time she had a fantastic time at academic school and aced her GCSEs in a range of subjects and languages which Vocational schools couldn't offer.

 

She's done EYB twice and numerous summer schools, learning to be away from home, getting more fantastic training, and making lovely friends. Ballet has kept her fit, given her beautiful posture, independence, confidence, and a sense of achievement. Her Vocational exams have given her UCAS points.

 

She is fortunate enough to have gained a scholarship at an upper school and is loving dancing every day. BUT even at 16, we still don't have a crystal ball - anything could happen; there's no guarantee of employment after 3 years, she could get injured or even just change her mind!

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that even if every teacher says your dd has potential, ANYTHING could happen. She could grow and no longer have a suitable physique for a ballet career. She could get injured. She could burn out and announce that she wants to do horse riding instead! In my honest opinion, I think you are worrying too much. If your dd wants to try for a career as a ballet dancer, lower school is not the only route. As long as she gets a good academic education, has enough good quality training, and can do associates and/or summer schools, and as long as she keeps her physique as she grows, there will be nothing to stop her applying for Upper Schools. No teacher can predict the future and that's probably why they are reluctant to try. Try to relax and let your dd enjoy the journey because no matter what happens, ballet will never have been a waste of time.

[Lema]

Thank you everyone, I am a natural worrier and I think I'm panicking at the moment as we have had to make some hard choices over the last 6 months with regards to her dancing and I have found it so difficult knowing whether we have made the right decisions, so I suppose a lot of my worry isn't whether she will make it as a dancer or is she good enough etc my worries are more immediate, have I made the right choices, is this what's best for her and how do I know what's the best route to take to help her achieve what she dreams of, I think I just feel like I need a little guidance from time to time from someone who knows what they are talking about as I really haven't got a clue!! But then again as has been pointed out, there is no set route and I guess I need to just take each day as it comes and if it's right it's right and if not we can try a new approach ???? luckily she is very academic and I think that is very important to keep the level of education up so she will always have other options, I just think I feel a little out of my depth with never being a part of this world before and all of a sudden I'm in it up to my elbows and having to make decisions about things I know nothing of!!

[Lema]

Harwel it is so nice to know I'm not alone and Anna C it's lovely to hear of your daughters success, and I will never look at her Ballet as a waste of time even if she decided to take up something else at a later date, she has enjoyed it whilst she's done it and that is all that matters to me ????

[Anna C]

Harwel it is so nice to know I'm not alone and Anna C it's lovely to hear of your daughters success, and I will never look at her Ballet as a waste of time even if she decided to take up something else at a later date, she has enjoyed it whilst she's done it and that is all that matters to me

Perfect. It's so easy to get caught up in worrying and fretting, after all these are our babies and probably always will be! The way I think of it nowdays is that my dd will never say to me "you didn't let me follow my dream" - within reason of course, taking into account finances and other family members. Also, it's cheaper than motor racing or horse riding. ;-)

[taxi4ballet]

We all have a 'worry' switch - and I wish I could switch mine off sometimes, but I can't seem to find it!

[Lisa O`Brien]

I can totally empathise with you Lema. My 18 year old son who doesn`t dance has finished a BTEC in Health and Social Care for which he gained the second highest grade. He has just this week started a Health and Social Care HND. When the course finishes in two year`s time he will have to pay back the £5,000 fees. Guess what? He has absolutely no intention of taking ANY job related to his course at all, even though the BTEC only qualifies you for that specific subject and nothing else. I think a career as an Occupational Therapist would be right up his street and he would have the correct entrance requirements for this degree. He`s having none of it. No interest. I want him to be happy of course. But I am so,so worried about his future,I really am.

[balletbrokemybank]

Gosh I feel exactly the same. My ds has only been dancing 9 months but has managed to get on rbs and Elmhurst Associates. We are looking at it as an opportunity but it is expensive and time consuming and we have 3 other DC to consider. He is going to audition for the vocational schools but I wish someone could tell me if we are doing the right thing or even if he has a chance. I am totally out of my comfort zone and have no idea about dance at all. No matter what happens though I am pleased he has found something he loves and he has already gotten so much out of dance.

[Piccolo]

Lema, i can see why it must be difficult to stop worrying. You obviously have a very talented dd and are trying to help her on your own. I remember at the funding final for Tring they said what a big responsibility it is to support a talented child with their dance when you haven't got the support of a vocational school. I thought it was really nice of them to acknowledge that.

 

If it was a trip to the orthodontist to discuss teeth you'd be a bit peeved if you were told the orthodontist was not able to discuss anything with you.

 

Sounds like you should keep going with it though but if doesn't work out she'll probably be just as happy and very successful in another career if as you say she's bright academically too.

[Lema]

Wow Lisa, so the worrying doesn't stop even when they are grow up then!! I think as moms we always find something to worry about with our children, after all we just want the best for them!

And jennyboydance I know exactly how you feel, dd got offered 4 associate schemes after only 9 months of Ballet also, and since then life has just been a whirlwind!! And sometimes it does leave you with your head spinning!! Although I am lucky that I only have one dancing child and not 4 like you!! I don't know how I'd cope with more than one child dancing.

Thank you Piccolo for your kind words and yes I recall Tring saying that and I agree it was nice to get an acknowledgement of how hard it can be for us parent!!

[betterankles]

The most important thing to consider is how much your daughter or son NEEDS to dance (not just would like...).  You would know about that...

[Flora]

I can really relate to this too. I worry about all my children including my grown up children but when you have a dancer for a child I think it's particularly bad. There is so much totally beyond your control- will they grow too tall? will they be too short/have legs which are too short? will they fill out too much or get injured? If they lose confidence the spark and musicality can go in their dancing too and the older they get at vocational school the more there seems to be to worry about. I have to check myself as I think it would be easy to get a rather unhealthy attitude to it all as a parent. I try to remind myself it is ultimately her life to get on with. I have my own.

 

I do also find some reassurance from the school from time to time is very helpful- and not just when it is given to the child. I understand no ballet teacher can promise a glittering career at the RB but parents need to know too they have not made a terrible mistake putting the academic education in second place as you inevitably have to do, to a greater or lesser extent.  

[LovetoDance2003]

DD is very academic and it is so difficult to know if she has any chance of success in the performing world as like Flora says you don't want the academic education to come 2nd if we need that to fall back on!

[Guest]

My mantra that I am trying to stick to, is 'its the things you don't do that you regret later. And what is success? A lovely elderly lady that we know danced in an ancestor company to Cork Ballet in the 1950's for 10 years. She said it was a very hard life and they were frequently so impoverished that when on tour the dancers would sleep on top of the packing cases that held their costumes. She gave it up to marry and have children as women tended to do then. It never brought her fame or fortune but her children thought she was the coolest mum and demanded frequent viewings of her costumes - she still has them now. And despite being in her 80's she still has fabulous posture and remembers every part she ever danced. Was it worth it for her? You bet!

[Lema]

What a lovely story mnemo thank you for sharing!

[Sandi]

Flora and Mnemo you have summed up entire thoughts in the journey of being the mother of an aspiring dancer .

[Emma northmore]

For all you worrying mums out there. It is perfectly acceptable to ask for a proper feedback session. Particularly from a vocational school or associate programme. You can ask if enough of these vital 'boxes' are being ticked. We as teachers can't guarantee work even for the most talented students as they are at the whim of a directors view of what is good or not. And everyone has a different opinion!

 

However we need to be careful of gauging a childs' talent because they have been accepted on to certain programmes or schools. Unfortunately a small handful are possibly given places so the school can run, as a business. Parents pay thousands when in reality the physicality of that child is just not cut out for a career in ballet. It's every parents right to ask for a formal chat with the principal for the honest facts about their child's ability (this is particular to ballet ). If knees won't straighten or the turn out is not there then no amount of hard work will overcome this. There is a degree of turn out that can be "arranged" to fit once in upper school but any less than this and it will just not happen. Its only fair that parents and children are told this before they become emotionally drained and damaged by the constant 'No', not enough, not right, not good enough. Over the yrs they are left with a lack of self confidence that is ingrained and a loss of academic years when their focus could have been redirected before any damage was done.

 

For example: a lack of turn out, if the degree is not too extreme, can be overcome with great feet and an intelligent mind to hide it. Short hamstrings don't matter so much if the turn out is present and with good feet. Or wonderful musicality and ballon hide the lack of instep etc etc. SOME of these boxes must always be ticked. IF NONE of these are happening at age 13/14 then its only fair to have a rethink as the jobs are just not out there even for some very blessed dancers. Even then you are reliant on luck, timing and if they like a dark or light haired dancer that day!!

 

Ballet is a gift but can provide much angst. There is nothing guaranteed or straight forward on this path and if they love it then its like the very air they breathe and they will always thank you for the opportunity. Dreams must be followed if there is a chance! If that dream has the potential to crush and destroy a person it can become their worst nightmare. As parents we must allow for their dreams but also guide them in light of the realities they will face - again they will still thank you one day for saving them from a mistake and giving them the chance to choose a happy confident life.

 

By posting this I don't wish to be doom and gloom, as there is much joy to be had, but i feel we have a duty as teachers and ex professionals to be honest at all times. Its not a job but children's lives and futures in our hands.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

I think it's very difficult to get that level of honesty though. People tend to tell you what they think you want to hear (especially if you are paying fees)

 

It's such a difficult path.

[Moomin]

I'm genuinely surprised they need to take children that far from the ideal given the scarcity of places at vocational schools.

[Picturesinthefirelight]

Some of the schools only have a small amount of funded places though so to be viable they have to take fee payers.

 

Now of course they will offer those fee paying places to the most talented children first but if they are unable to afford it or find funding elsewhere they have to move down the list.

 

We were told dd was borderline (the audition panel was split on their decision to admit her) - she was offered a place after the normal audition rounds & that year was under subscribed (though that's not the case in subsequent years).

Edited August 29, 2016 by Picturesinthefirelight

[richieN]

@Lema, I hear you loud and clear. I think everyone has thoughts like that when their children step out of their comfort zone into larger arenas. But this is where it really is up to your daughter. Teachers will always keep their cards held to their chests for many reasons - some of them commercial, others are to do with giving a student the time and space to evolve their technique. A teacher merely shows the student the door. It is the student who must walk through it. We don't know who will fail or succeed. And who can judge failure in such a small area as within a dance studio or on the stage? Life is a much bigger and broader journey for both you and your daughter. 
 

It sounds to me like you need to level with the teacher, and also to re-evaluate your personal goals for both you and your dd. People rarely end up precisely where they set out to go. It is what they pick up on the way that defines their character and purpose.

[CeliB]

I completely empathise with the worry. Even though DS has been consistently (with one notable, almost career, ending exception) been told he has everything he needs to make it as a professional I have still worried continuously that we have done/are doing the right thing in supporting this career pathway. It is probably only in the last 6 months because he is astonishingly happy and the feedback is so extraordinary that I have started to let the worry go (a little).

 

When I compare this with my daughter who had 6 years (age 6-12) as an elite high board diver it feels to me (looking back at the decisions) that we had a gut instinct for when the training wasn't working - she wasn't enjoying it, she wasn't keeping up with her peers, just had gone a bit 'off the boil' if you know what I mean. Most significantly when we tentatively suggested it was time to call it a day her response was 'thank goodness, I really wanted to give up but was worried you would be upset'. 6 years later she still talks of her time with nostalgia and is completely aware of the skills it gave her in terms of independence, application, camaraderie with a team etc (all the sorts of things that go with ballet too) but doesn't regret stopping.

 

With DS he only had 1 wobble in the last 5 years. Otherwise even when he has not been 100% happy in his vocational school (for various reasons) he has not really considered giving up ballet itself. I honestly think that if he genuinely wanted to we would be able to tell the difference.

 

As long as you are realistic with your DD about the chances of success (and it sounds as if you are being exactly as 'honest-while-supportive' as you can be) and she is happy, and you can afford for her to carry on (in time and money) that is the best you can do. Quite honestly even if you could get a dance teacher to give you a 100% certainty of her future it would still only be the opinion of one person, and as I have learned there may always be one person out there who thinks your DK is totally useless, lazy and talentless (exact quote), so perhaps its just as well most teachers are kinder and less certain...!

[Lisa O`Brien]

"Totally useless, lazy and talentless". Wow. You must remind your son to send that person complimentary tickets to watch him perform professionally one day. 

[LinMM]

Seconded Lisa!

[Dance*is*life]

It really is impossible to predict - over my many years as a teacher I am constantly being surprised by dancers who make it because of sheer determination, while others with more natural talent don't.  All I can say is that even though things didn't exactly work out as I had planned (I never actually became a second Margot Fonteyn as friends and family always described me - my reply was "I'll be better than her!") I honestly wouldn't have changed anything.  I achieved my dream of training at RBS, did dance professionally for a while, had a second performing career as a character artiste and have been a teacher for some 40 years - in other words as far as I'm concerned dance did become my life, just in a different way to what I'd envisaged!  Even if your dancing daughter doesn't make it, that training will stand her in good stead for anything else she decides to go for - dancer's work ethics are impeachable!  And if she does make it - I can only tell you how I feel about it - that I am incredibly lucky to be in a profession where my work is also my passion!

[BlueLou]

Nice to read that I am not alone! My dd is also very academic (as am I and her Dad, not a decent dance step between us!). Our natural inclination was to encourage her towards more secure professions, but I have come to realise that dance is her life. It’s all she wants to do. So we have to try. But it would be lovely if an expert could reassure me that she’s got what it takes!

[TYR]

"Totally useless, lazy and talentless". Wow. You must remind your son to send that person complimentary tickets to watch him perform professionally one day. 

 

"Unemployable". Starting a new job this week. Can't send the guy tickets to that, but there's a certain satisfaction all the same.

[alison]

It really is impossible to predict - over my many years as a teacher I am constantly being surprised by dancers who make it because of sheer determination, while others with more natural talent don't. 

 

Natural talent on its own will never be enough if you don't put the hard work in as well.  If I can digress into another tennis analogy (sorry ): Roger Federer is probably one of the most naturally talented tennis players ever, whereas Novak Djokovic wasn't ever regarded as an outstanding prospect.  But neither of them would have got to where they are today, with numbers of Grand Slam tournaments won in double figures, without putting in loads and loads of hard work, and making incremental improvements to their respective games, day in, day out.

[JulieW]

It really is impossible to predict - over my many years as a teacher I am constantly being surprised by dancers who make it because of sheer determination, while others with more natural talent don't. All I can say is that even though things didn't exactly work out as I had planned (I never actually became a second Margot Fonteyn as friends and family always described me - my reply was "I'll be better than her!") I honestly wouldn't have changed anything. I achieved my dream of training at RBS, did dance professionally for a while, had a second performing career as a character artiste and have been a teacher for some 40 years - in other words as far as I'm concerned dance did become my life, just in a different way to what I'd envisaged! Even if your dancing daughter doesn't make it, that training will stand her in good stead for anything else she decides to go for - dancer's work ethics are impeachable! And if she does make it - I can only tell you how I feel about it - that I am incredibly lucky to be in a profession where my work is also my passion!

I echo that - my son had a fantastic time and is proud to have been at the RBS and Elmhurst, and to have danced professionally for a few years. He's no longer dancing which I'm sad about but it's turned him into a fantastic young man with a strong work ethic and he's having an even better time as a personal trainer - he loves his job and is thrilled when people thank him for changing their lives.

[Dance*is*life]

This reminds me of a thread going around on Facebook about people who were told they would never be any good or succeed at their chosen career and then proved everybody wrong by becoming world famous phenomena!  I must google it!