annaliesey Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Thank you Tulip For the record though, if your daughter is heading for vocational school, most of us parents (not all) tend to put up and shut up. That is wrong, very wrong, but it's just the way it is. Haha OK .. Fair enough 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Everyone is paying the same for their class, and hopefully should benefit from that equally, it does seem a bit unfair if one is receiving far more attention than the others, for whatever reason. There are some teachers (not many thankfully) who do show blatant favouritism towards particular students, and unsurprisingly it doesn't go down at all well with everyone else. Yeah we have our fair share of that. Sometimes it's been my DD in one class and someone else in a different class and so on. They fall out of favour just as easily I don't actually believe too much in fairness as its not enough like the real world and sometimes playing favourites can motivate positively sometimes But I don't really want to put up and shut up just out of loyalty whereas I'd prefer to do something about a problem if I can. Perhaps it might be worth carrying on for a bit, and seeing how the land lies after another term or so. I've paid next terms fees and DD will carry on but I'll find an additional class hopefully 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 I thought I'd go back and read your original post again, and what has just occurred to me is that this might not be as crazy as it seems after all. All young girls mature physically (and reach puberty) at different ages, and one of the signs of maturing physically is a growth spurt. This could mean that since this girl is more physically mature for her age than some others, then she might be ready to start more challenging work. Perhaps it was a difficult concept for the teacher to adequately explain to a bunch of 10-11 year-olds, so she mentioned height as it was the easiest thing at the time. From what's been explained to me by teachers and what I've picked up over the years, the ballet syllabus is very carefully graded so that exercises gradually increase in technical difficulty in line with the expected physical maturity of the students taking that grade. This is why the vocational grades in particular have minimum ages for taking the exams. Something else to bear in mind, is that the new RAD grades are more challenging than before (so I'm told) and need a stronger technique at grade 4+. This could be why the teacher is spending more time breaking down the exercises in class (and why it has started to be a bit boring!). Thanks Taxi that makes more sense now I wish the teacher would have expanded more on her comments at the time as would have saved a lot of tears! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Sorry LinMM ive just got to your post and I'm sure you are very shaken up Thoughts with the families indeed Hope you are OK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Thank you, PITFL. Lin, what an awful shock it must have been. Love to you both and sympathies with the poor families, some of whom are still waiting for news of their loved ones. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Lin ,How awful for you to have been so close to something like that happening. I hope,in time,you will be able to put it out of your mind somewhat. I came back from my slimming group today for my son to tell me 2 boys he used to go to primary school with,along with another,all of them 19 and 20 ,were killed outright in a car crash yesterday evening. The mother of one of the boys is such a nice lady as well. Although I haven`t seen her for years,I used to always chat to her when our children were in the same class at primary school. Life can be so cruel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinMM Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Also terrible to hear Lisa. This thread has in part been about fairness. But in the grand scheme of things Life can seem very unfair indeed and even cruelly so. However wherever one can act to influence things in even a small way to be fairer then I guess it's important to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 24, 2015 Author Share Posted August 24, 2015 Sorry to hear that Lisa ... Life can be cruel indeed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiz Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 It's awful news, Lisa. I'm so sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa O`Brien Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 All 3 lads had just finished their first year at Queen`s University Belfast,a Russell Group university.Now they had finished their first year in Halls,they ,all three of them very close to each other,were moving into a flat together,close to the Uni. They were driving back home to the Newry area Sunday evening ,after leaving all their belongings into their new flat. Apparently they were excited to be moving in together. Their car was a small Vauxhall Corsa and the weather was atrocious,on a very difficult stretch of road near Banbridge in County Down. One,as I said was the brother of a friend of Seans. One of the others,was the Head Boy at Sean`s High School,two years older than Sean.Whilst still at school he had gone to Kenya and Russia,doing voluntary work in his holidays. The images of their car; when the much more powerful other car went into them. They never stood a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 How very sad Lisa for these lovely young men to be taken so soon. Certainly makes you put things into perspective about the trivial things in life. My heart goes out to these young men and the other poor victims of the air crash xx 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngatheart Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Yes such awful things happening really puts everything else into perspective doesn't it? Going back to the topic though, no-one seems to be picking up on what may be the real reason the relationship between your DD and the teacher may have broken down (which it undoubtedly has). Anneliesy, reading between the lines you appear to have signed your DD up for the extra IF lessons at the other school without asking for permission from the current teacher, and that she found out about this later? Seems to me it was after that that your DD "fell out of favour", wasn't asked to demonstrate any more etc. It is a matter of accepted etiquette that you do not approach other dance schools unless the existing teacher is happy for you to do so (at least in children's classes; things are generally a bit more casual for adults). If I am reading this right then it would be you who owed her an apology - if you started off a discussion in that way she may then be more open to listening to your concerns. On the subject of the exam, if none of the dances are being taught, there is no way anyone will be ready to do the exam (unless they are having private lessons unbeknown to you). If they really are doing the exam, the lessons between now and November will have to be pretty much focussed on the dances, thereby addressing your DD's concern. Might it be that the teacher has done things that way round to try & get some technique into the newbies before exposing them to the choreography (which if they have a contemporary/modern background they may pick up fairly quickly?) BTW I do think it is inappropriate to have put these newbies into a graded class when there is already a non-syllabus technique class available for this type of student - perhaps they couldn't make that one due to scheduling? But yes if they are primarily modern dancers they will benefit hugely from ballet classes (their lack of ballet probably explains their low modern marks which is why she will have put them there.) I once knew a girl in this situation who totally blossomed from doing ballet and suddenly started getting distinctions in her modern exams (after coming from nowhere!) Edited August 25, 2015 by youngatheart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Thank you youngatheart DD hasn't 'fallen out of favour' really as nothing has changed in terms of attitude towards her. DD doesn't describe things in this way but rather just displays her own frustration with progress. It's been the emphasis since the start of this graded class to go pretty slow, go over the exercises so thoroughly, and not have much time to do the dances. She's still demonstrating where asked. There just seems to be a split between the oldies and the newbies in terms of pace, emphasis, encouragement, expectations. The oldies seem to expect more having been used to it before and also currently in other classes. Then there is the inconsistent treatment with one particular girl supposedly doing her exam. The other oldies would like to give the exam a go earlier and risk a lower mark but that option doesn't seem available to them I don't feel bad about taking 6 lessons somewhere else without prior permission. I know it's not the done thing to go somewhere else without talking with the existing teacher first but the way I see it is that it was a temporary project which is different from registering as a student and taking exams under another teachers name. I don't consult her about short term associate classes, drop in classes, summer/easter schools, short training courses, open days etc and these 6 classes were pretty much the same as that with no exam at the end. It would be different if I took up an entire syllabus term elsewhere though, I accept. It was quite a lot of lessons for my DD to miss in a term. We missed 6 saturdays and she usually does 5 classes on those days. It's not about money but this worked out at half a term across 5 classes so, about 25 classes (25 hours approx) I only chose to take action to make up time for about 6 of them feeling that IF was the most important. Other mums did complain and ask for money back but as I said it wasn't about the money for me but rather about making up for some of the lost time. It was good of the other teacher to take her into her regular class, risk disruption to her own students, knowing full well that we would not be making it a permanent arrangement, and being generous and considerate with her time and attention. This thing about loyalty is fine up to a point but it does work both ways But in any event, the make up classes were fairly recent and the issue over the pace of the classes has been ongoing for 4 months prior. Interesting that you feel that nobody would be ready to take exams in Nov if only just starting to learn the dances in Sept. That helps me get perspective on what others think and gauge my DD's concerns regarding timescales. I completely agree that that's why so much emphasis has been with exercises up until now (getting technique into newbies). I would be surprise if anyone was having private lessons. They can't even be bothered to turn up for very low priced or even free classes to compliment their training (can you sense the irritation in my typing?) There was an extra class put on yesterday and out of 8 students only my DD turned up (and one other oldie half way through the class) !! As for the non-syllabus technique class, I would be surprised the newbies couldn't make it as it was deliberately put on after another class that they do as part of the competition team. The dance teacher did feel quite disappointed that she put on this class with them in mind (and some other older people in other grades and classes too) and yet none of them took this up. The idea initially was for new students to join these classes (there are two levels too) for at least a term before moving into the other graded classes and for this class to be used for all students that wanted to do an exam a year as opposed to an exam every other year. This is why students and mums are irritated that someone can come along, not do what everyone else does, not put the effort in, and seemingly get rewarded with the opportunities not available to others. Now I really do understand that this happens and someone talented will come along and get treated differently. I was actually watching something on youtube this morning about Misty Copeland's journey and how she actually went to live with her dance teachers and had a custody issue with parents and how she training from beginner at at 13 etc... now THERE'S comittment from a dance teacher for you!) I do understand that as soon as any student or mum comments in a negative way everyone assumes it's jealousy. It feels a bit like that too tbh but this was why my question at beginning of the thread was would others be a bit miffed too if they felt it impacted on them or if others genuinely just put their head down, keep quiet, and not take any action to change anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxi4ballet Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 To be honest I think I would be a bit miffed too! The best thing to do though when this sort of thing happens (IMHO) is to stay out of the discussions between other disgruntled parents as much as is possible, keep your head down and see what happens next term. The chances are that there will be more leavers and joiners again, and the whole dynamic will shift once more. You never know, things might just change for the better, and then you haven't burned your bridges so to speak. If something specific happens which directly affects your dd, then perhaps that's the time to act. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aileen Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I agree with taxi4ballet's last post. It all sounds a bit Dance Moms! Keep your focus on your own dd and put a bit of distance between yourself and the other mothers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngatheart Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Sorry if I misunderstood - in one of your earlier posts you did seem to imply that the teacher's attitude to your DD had changed recently and that you did not feel that she would be receptive if you spoke to her about your concerns, and also that she was annoyed about DD taking the IF classes elsewhere. I'm definitely NOT saying that you shouldn't have done it (under the circumstances I actually agree it did seem your only option!) just that it would have been better to have let her regular teacher know about it first as a matter of courtesy. Interesting that you feel that nobody would be ready to take exams in Nov if only just starting to learn the dances in Sept. That helps me get perspective on what others think and gauge my DD's concerns regarding timescales. I completely agree that that's why so much emphasis has been with exercises up until now (getting technique into newbies). That's not exactly what I said - I said that if they really were going to be doing the exam, a lot of their lesson time in the next half-term would need to be devoted to the dances (BTW have the newbies even done any character yet????) Since the newbies will have forgotten whatever technique they knew over the summer, this does not seem very practical as they will need to go over the other exercises thoroughly again as well. They can't even be bothered to turn up for very low priced or even free classes to compliment their training (can you sense the irritation in my typing?) There was an extra class put on yesterday and out of 8 students only my DD turned up (and one other oldie half way through the class) !! Good ammunition for the teacher to use against any newbie's pushy mum who may be demanding that her DD be entered for the exam in November? As for the non-syllabus technique class, I would be surprised the newbies couldn't make it as it was deliberately put on after another class that they do as part of the competition team. The dance teacher did feel quite disappointed that she put on this class with them in mind (and some other older people in other grades and classes too) and yet none of them took this up. The idea initially was for new students to join these classes (there are two levels too) for at least a term before moving into the other graded classes and for this class to be used for all students that wanted to do an exam a year as opposed to an exam every other year. Sounds like the parents may have been "demanding" that their DD's be allowed to do ballet exam work.... Maybe she couldn't afford to lose their business? Or really wanted to keep them in the competition team? I do agree it sounds extremely frustrating. All I* can say is that it should become very clear in the first few lessons of term as to which way this is going, i.e. are the dances now going to be taught or not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farawaydancer Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Regarding the dances, at the school my dc attend the dances are always left until right to the very end to learn and often are still being learned the week before the exam! It's all a bit nerve wracking for the students but they always get high merits and distinctions. I asked their teacher about this and she said that if they've done all the exercises and learnt all the steps then the dances come together very quickly. It obviously works for her. Maybe your dd's teacher has a similar way of working? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) ...The best thing to do though when this sort of thing happens (IMHO) is to stay out of the discussions between other disgruntled parents as much as is possible, keep your head down and see what happens next term. The chances are that there will be more leavers and joiners again, and the whole dynamic will shift once more. You never know, things might just change for the better, and then you haven't burned your bridges so to speak. If something specific happens which directly affects your dd, then perhaps that's the time to act. Yes, thanks for this I think maybe because it feels like it's been going on for so long that I should consider making alternative plans. I don't want to burn my bridges but then I don't want to be too complacent either. However, recent development yesterday, DD actually started the dances and because there was only her and one other oldie in the class they enjoyed it immensely. They are doing dance C and F. One involved a cane and one with tambourine so she said it was great fun Edited August 25, 2015 by annaliesey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Sorry if I misunderstood - in one of your earlier posts you did seem to imply that the teacher's attitude to your DD had changed recently and that you did not feel that she would be receptive if you spoke to her about your concerns, and also that she was annoyed about DD taking the IF classes elsewhere. That's probably my fault for rambling on a bit attitude to DD has been fine apart from being defensive. She was a bit stroppy over IF classes but didn't have any alternative solution to offer. ... It would have been better to have let her regular teacher know about it first as a matter of courtesy. Yes agree it was a timing issue really as I has every intention of telling her face to face when I saw her next but she found out within 24 hrs of me arranging with the other teacher and contacted me instead That's not exactly what I said - I said that if they really were going to be doing the exam, a lot of their lesson time in the next half-term would need to be devoted to the dances Sorry didn't mean to twist your words (BTW have the newbies even done any character yet????) Nope Since the newbies will have forgotten whatever technique they knew over the summer, this does not seem very practical as they will need to go over the other exercises thoroughly again as well. Yeah ... Eek! Good ammunition for the teacher to use against any newbie's pushy mum who may be demanding that her DD be entered for the exam in November? I'd like to think so Sounds like the parents may have been "demanding" that their DD's be allowed to do ballet exam work.... Maybe she couldn't afford to lose their business? Or really wanted to keep them in the competition team? I think it's probably a combination of all of the points. I understand about not risking the loss of business but this goes both ways too. Side by side she has seemed intent on keeping business from lesser committed newbies versus long standing business. It's her call but like any dissatisfied customers there is the risk people will vote with their feet. I think there is a tendency so expect longer serving mums to keep their heads down / put up or shut up / but it comes down to trust and credibility to deliver a service probably at the end of the day There seems to be this kudos too to be able to say "better than you" with the graded classes as opposed to the technical class. agree too about competition team I do agree it sounds extremely frustrating. All I* can say is that it should become very clear in the first few lessons of term as to which way this is going, i.e. are the dances now going to be taught or not? Yes, agree it will be quite obvious soon. DD started to learn the dances today Edited August 25, 2015 by annaliesey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Regarding the dances, at the school my dc attend the dances are always left until right to the very end to learn and often are still being learned the week before the exam! It's all a bit nerve wracking for the students but they always get high merits and distinctions. I asked their teacher about this and she said that if they've done all the exercises and learnt all the steps then the dances come together very quickly. It obviously works for her. Maybe your dd's teacher has a similar way of working? Yes maybe I guess DD will see now in the next few weeks how things pan out. Reassuring to hear others rush a bit in this way is your DD similar age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farawaydancer Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Yes maybe I guess DD will see now in the next few weeks how things pan out. Reassuring to hear others rush a bit in this way is your DD similar age? My ds is 11, dd 7. It took him a while to get used to the 'last minute' nature of learning the dances but after four or so exams he's used to it now! He's off to full time school next week so will have to get used to a whole new style of teaching again. Dd has just done her gr1 exam and coped fine too, got a distinction so leaving the dances til the end didn't hurt her either. I know some of the older girls in their school do get a little frustrated with the grade classes because they don't feel like they're doing much proper dancing but it does seem to pay off in the end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngatheart Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 For experienced dancers I agree that leaving the dance until the last minute may work - but it very much depends on the dancer! Some thrive on it, others fall apart in the exam due to lack of confidence with it. From my own point of view as a student, I very much fell into the latter group & did not even want to be considered for an exam (in any dance style) until I had learnt the whole syllabus thoroughly, including the dances. However in relation to the newbies, I would regard deciding on an exam date before teaching all of the syllabus a complete no-no. As I said above, the risk of them forgetting all the other work while learning the dances would be just too great, especially in relation to the character. Also the new syllabus is much harder than the old one - I'm wondering if your teacher has entered anyone for the new Grade 4 before. since you say she only does exams every two years? If not, this may be another reason for the way the syllabus has been taught this time - she may not have learnt the dances herself yet, and if she was unfamiliar with the other work, she may well have wanted to teach it more slowly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 I was wondering if the more experienced girls might like the challenges of say the royal ballet associates. You mentioned that your daughter and her friends were wanting to go off to vocational schools. At least these classes will have similar abilities and like minded children in them. If she does want to go off to school I wouldnt focus too much on exams but sound technique and musicality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 For experienced dancers I agree that leaving the dance until the last minute may work - but it very much depends on the dancer! Some thrive on it, others fall apart in the exam due to lack of confidence with it. I think my DD's ideal would just be not too rushed but with a deadline to aim for. Picking up had been her weekends up until about a year ago. She would just work extra hard to commit things to memory, more so than other girls her age. But once she's got it she rarely forgets anything. However in relation to the newbies, I would regard deciding on an exam date before teaching all of the syllabus a complete no-no. As I said above, the risk of them forgetting all the other work while learning the dances would be just too great, especially in relation to the character. The impression I get is that there is quite a time lag between putting in for exam sessions and getting a date through and this seems quite long with RAD. This is just mum perspective and I don't know whether it's a long or complicated process or what's involved but it seems to be a case of forecasting who will or won't be ready about two or three months ahead Also the new syllabus is much harder than the old one - I'm wondering if your teacher has entered anyone for the new Grade 4 before. since you say she only does exams every two years? If not, this may be another reason for the way the syllabus has been taught this time - she may not have learnt the dances herself yet, and if she was unfamiliar with the other work, she may well have wanted to teach it more slowly. Sorry I've possibly misled you again She tells students in they only do one class a week at an hour each week that it will be two years per grade. But she does run exams about twice a year. I think the last grade 4 exam was possibly a year ago and I don't know if syllabus changed in this time. Certainly she's been considering which dances to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 I was wondering if the more experienced girls might like the challenges of say the royal ballet associates. You mentioned that your daughter and her friends were wanting to go off to vocational schools. At least these classes will have similar abilities and like minded children in them. If she does want to go off to school I wouldnt focus too much on exams but sound technique and musicality. I think that's fab advice not sure about RB associates as I think some of us assume they want super skinny or certain body shapes. Our kids just look normal so not sure how they would get on with their applications. I have got the audition open date in my diary though for 1st Sept for my DD to apply so we'll see how that goes. But my Dd and one other of her friends start CAT scheme next month and another is doing EYB and I think they are all looking for Sunday associates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 My daughter was a RBS associate and they are certainly not super skinny or the same height. The Royal know what they are looking for and this has been debated endlessly for years on this forum. If your dd has the ability and physique then it is worth auditioning for. I noticed you said she is already 11 so wondering has she already auditioned for vocational school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annaliesey Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 She only auditioned last year for Tring. She got offered theatre course without funding but not dance which was her first choice. In hindsight she possibly should have auditioned for other places too to have a better comparison and more chances. As she went through the process she decided that she didn't want to do less dance than she does now as Tring said year 7's only did 8-9 hours of dance per week. That really put her off to be honest as odd as that may sound. (She does about 15 at the moment) She then went for auditions for CAT scheme at Dance East and really loved the contemporary and ballet they did at two taster days. She also likes what we've been told about the ballet programme. It's still 8-9 hours but she can carry on with dance at her local dance school. All in all she said she preferred that option instead of vocational at year 7. She was more than happy with the idea of moving away from home but she didn't want to do less dance than she does now with a varying range of dance styles. Plus she really enjoys competitions. A friend of hers is starting Tring year 9 and I think she would like to try again then when the amount of dance increases. So our focus currently is graded syllabus and vocational grades with local dance school, other grades too with modern, Jazz & tap, and then CAT scheme with Dance East. Who knows if these are best choices but seems the best available for her at the moment 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 My daughter attended Tring and they used to do a full morning of dance be it ballet contemp modern or tap. I wonder if you were told 8 or 9 hours of just ballet a week. Good luck with it all anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 The OP was offered Theatre Arts Primrose, not Dance. They do far less balket & dance on that course. (We looked at it for ds but couldn't afford the fees) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 Dd not ds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picturesinthefirelight Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 However I am firmly of the opinion that it's quality not quantity that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
primrose Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 That makes more sense picturesinthefirelight and quality of teaching is the most valuable thing a dancer can have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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