Harwel

Look at MT degree courses. My youngest son at GSA (Guildford school of acting). Did 2 years dance at Emil Dale academy on their BTECH course. He did Ballet to grade 2 at 7yrs old and never danced after that. Always sang and acted though. Best MT courses to look at (open days and summer shows this year worth exploring), GSA and Arts (probably some of the others do too) do summer schools too which might be worth looking at and pre audition workshops. GSA Mountview Arts Ed Urdang Bird College Laine Theatre Arts Wilkes Academy Royal Welsh Scottish conservatoire There are literally loads more but the above are all very highly rated with great industry links and progression into the profession. Boys do not have to have done masses of dance, they just have to be trainable and have some natural ability. They will have to be able to sing very well though. My son was grade 8 at 15, however, grades are not required just a really good voice and if he can get some excellent singing lessons while doing his A levels it would give him chance to explore that. Never too late to pursue a passion.

If your DD is desperate to go away to vocational school and she can’t get the training outside of that then it’s worth trying Hammond and Tring. However, with MT there really isn’t any need to go away to train from 11 years old. My youngest son is currently training on degree course at GSA on MT course. He stayed at our local secondary school but had fantastic training from his wonderful drama and singing teachers outside of school. He started dancing at 15 when he said he wanted to be a professional actor/singer (he never wanted to do it earlier as his elder brother was training to be dancer so he did swimming and taekwondo). He got away with starting dancing late because he’s a boy and luckily for him he has a lot of natural ability. I do think it is important to do a more intensive 6th form though as the competition is so strong. My son went to Emil Dale for 6th form doing BTECH in performing arts. There are some other good colleges offering this type of training - look at Tring, Arts Ed, arts1, EDA and there are others, but I would avoid local colleges that are general education facilities offering a BTECH in PA (we did that for 6 months prior to the first covid lockdown and they were pretty rubbish even though they had good ratings - they just can’t compete with the professional colleges for teaching hours, quality of teaching and progression stats). Luckily, my son started at the local college, and I realised very quickly it wasn’t good enough and he had his place secured for EDA before the Christmas break. He went to EDA with grade 8 singing and grade 7 drama and 1 year of jazz dance training. Lots of performing under his belt from festivals, a good weekend drama school who did fabulous shows and was a member of NYMT. His year at EDA were incredibly talented and all but 3 of the 43 students got offers of degree or diploma courses to continue their training (I think 2 dropped out Along the way and one decided at the end they wanted to do something else). Nearly all of his current class mates either did full time performing arts courses at 6th form or did a foundation course (EDA, Arts Ed, GSA, etc) after A’levels. 2 were at the dance school of Scotland, one went to White lodge but mostly they did local secondary schools.

No he didn’t live at home. He has been renting in London since he was 19. We are 130 miles away. Shared houses, flats and sometimes with friends, sometimes with strangers. After 4 years he is more settled in a flat share with a friend from work. It’s not been easy. But he has been able to find it all himself with his wages.

The further education issue is very complicated and there are certainly no hard and fast rules. Each case must be investigated on its own merits. My son left Tring with 2 A’levels. Because of the change in his circumstance he did them both in 1 year (his 3rd year of upper school) . One was through school, the other was distance learning. He then got a degree apprenticeship for a construction management company. They required so many UCAS points but the 2 A’levels were not enough - he actually got onto the course because of his level 6 diploma in dance which he had just completed. We still laugh at the fact he qualified to train as a surveyor with his dance diploma. After 4 years of working full time and studying he has just passed his degree. It has been an incredibly hard path to tread, but I believe his tenacity, perfectionism, incredible work ethic and desire to succeed has all come from his dance training. There is no excuse for the horrible treatment that does go on in dance training - not for everyone - but it does exist. But there is always a way out with the correct support and love and understanding from good family. The future can be very bright for these beautiful young dancers in whatever path they end up taking, as the transferable skills are very highly sought after in so many other walks of life. My son was told last week by one of the senior partners of his company that when he heard he was getting a ballet dancer he was very sceptical, but it turns out that he is ‘my best guy’ and he would love to find my like my son. I would highly recommend seeking out degree apprenticeships if at all possible as the degree is funded by the company and by the time they qualify they have years worth of experience and no debt.

One of my dear friends trained at Elmhurst in the early 80’s. She told me that one of her teachers told her she danced like a flea on a drum and that her legs looked like they had been put on backwards. Just a couple of choice comments made to a 12 year old.

I am so sorry your daughter suffered in this way. I have a son who told us he thought he was ‘broken’ when at ballet school. It was heartbreaking to watch the pain in such a gifted, beautiful boy! he is now very happily in a different career and thriving but we often talk about both of our experiences from our professional ballet training - nothing much changed in 40 years! I wish your daughter all the best in her new adventure and the further away from the trauma she gets the easier it will become, but be prepared for it to raise its ugly head at the most odd times and with certain triggers. I still get triggered in certain situations and I’m 56!

I have read this whole thread with great interest, I also watched the documentary. I am so sorry for all the hurt that accompanies ballet training, it really is the most insidious, mind twisting, toxic environment you can imagine. Ballet is so beautiful to watch but what goes on behind closed doors is totally shocking and almost unbelievable. For the parents on here that are trying to ‘parent blame’, get the other side of the story, suggest ‘it’s just sour grapes’, please just stop talking about something you clearly do not understand. You are not helping the literally hundreds of dancers who have been damaged by this toxic culture. You are gaslighting them - listen with open ears and hear the horror that clearly exists. I have heard it for years - oh it won’t happen to my child, oh well mine is special, oh mine is so mentally strong, well that happened to yours because they are just not talented enough, well it can’t be that bad, I have taught my child to stand up for themselves. Well that is all hogwash if you have a child at boarding school surrounded by competitive children, divisive teaching, Unsympathetic house parents, limited parental contact, a child’s self belief wrapped up in what they are doing, a perfectionist, hard working, diligent child who is eager to please those who have power and control over them. For the couple of parents here that are saying their child is at a school where this catagorically doesn’t happen and their children are incredibly happy - well amazing, fantastic, please share which school they are at as clearly lessons can be learnt from their teaching methods. There are so many accounts of the harm done it is truly heart breaking. Truly beautiful dancers who have been horribly bullied by teachers. Some of these are students who have been chosen by RBS at 16 and then crushed the moment they walk through the doors. Why? The young lady who this happened to in the documentary is not the only one it’s happened to! Surely they can not be dismissed as ‘not talented enough’, ‘wrong physique’, they’ve just been chosen by one of the world’s most prestigious schools! I have been taught (40 years ago) by 2 very well known, highly regarded teachers from Royal - worst classes I ever took - they were masters at cruel, unkind and divisive training. And guess what, they are still teaching, still in positions of power and apparently revered! Whenever is see their names I physically feel anger and disgust. My son knew Jack - I am so very sorry for his parents loss.

Oh I’m so glad the info was useful. All the best to her in her journey.

Hi, this is my younger son. My eldest is now a project manager for a construction management company! The hips never fully recovered from the 2 surgeries he had to have and he is very happy with his new life path (though there were some very dark times along this path). My youngest has always been an actor/singer but has a natural gift for dance that he discovered when he was about 16. Funny how life works out. I hope you are well.

If she wants MT then look into the associate/junior conservatoire classes run by GSA (Guildford school of acting) held on Saturday mornings at their studios at the University of Surrey. One of our top MT colleges. My son is on the MT degree there and it’s a fabulous place. No idea if it’s anywhere near you but well worth a look.

Totally agree. She has been incredibly determined and knew how to get to her end goal - that is a special talent all in itself. It will be lovely to watch her journey and wish her all the very best for a happy career - wherever it may take her.

Also very interesting that she auditioned every year for WL but only got in through the YAGP. Clearly not through lack of talent, potential or physical attributes.

Just to say, I am very pleased to see Scarlett Harvey - graduate of US RB last year (British trained - Elmhurst for 3 years. WL for 2, US RB for 3) was a scholar into RB last year has been promoted to artist this year. Fantastic achievement for her.

Those that know, know. Unfortunately everyone else who treads this path has to find out the hard way. I find some of the worst people to understand the truth of the training situation are avid ballet lovers who spend hours watching and admiring ballet but resolutely refuse to believe the hundreds of accounts of those of us who have lived this fiasco either by our own experiences and/or our children. They look at the very few (hand full) that have succeeded and say that’s ok, the others can’t have been gifted enough, wanted it enough, worked hard enough. Or you’re exaggerating it because you’re bitter, jealous, disgruntled. In truth they have absolutely no idea and are actually not in any position to comment - true case of gaslighting. The parents and students who have experienced this type of treatment at the hands of people who are in a position of power over our vulnerable youngsters should be taken seriously. Ballet is beautiful, unfortunately not everyone within the ballet world is as beautiful. Far too many accounts of mental abuse (bullying, ignoring, gaslighting and the list goes on) to be taken so lightly. I have seen a number of absolutely beautiful young dancers ousted from their training in the most cruel and inexplicable way. The mental scars are there for years and years. When is enough enough before something is done to change this dreadful treatment?

This was a really lovely summer school that my DS attended a couple of years running. The home stays worked out really well and he met some lovely people. The classes were always good with great teaching and a lovely atmosphere. DS loved the show, a chance for everyone to really connect with their love of dance and show what they had learnt. Well worth it!